Customer Satisfaction Survey

[412s2]

Just for fun!!

"Drawing a 40 year development programme to a close, Volkswagen would now like to have your opinions regarding the 'prototype' Type 4's design and usability, i.e. what would you improve or change about the Type 4 so that we can get it right on the production version and sell them by the million!!!"



I can think of lots of things, but I'll try to start the ball rolling with this:

You can't open the rear hatch on the Variant single handed! You have to either put your shopping (prized rare accessory bagged at a swap-meet) on the ground so you can push the release with one hand while lifting the hatch with the other or whist holding on to your shopping, balance on one leg so that you can push the release with your knee and use your one free hand to lift the hatch!!

[raygreenwood]

Your balance springs are messed up. I could always open mine with one hand. Ray

[vwfye]

i open mine with one hand as well... just not as easy as on the type 3.

i would change the front spring rate on the variant as i've never thought of putting 350lbs in the nose when i have the rear load deck available.

[412s2]

Really? Single handed? You don't have to hold the release in until you have the hatch clear of the lock? I've been balancing on one leg for the past 13 years, wondering why they never just used the same lock/handle system as the Type 2!

I could have put up with a smaller front boot so that I could have a tighter turning circle.

[vwfye]

i push the button in with my thumb and lift the lid with my fingers. i just invert my hand.

[412s2]

Yeah, I've tried that in the past, but I think my lock must be tighter than yours, it always needs a good shove from either my knee or the palm of my hand!

Anyway, tell me also the things you really love about your 411/412 too, I don't want this thread to be all negative!

I like the huge volume of space in the back of the Variant, that also serves as a double bed when camping, but also like the secure, safe area at the front of the vehicle for heavy, valuable, rattley things (like toolboxes).

I will always remember, having just loaded the front with my shopping at the supermarket, when suddenly a rather elderly gent popped out of nowhere and asked, 'Are ye haein' a wee bit o' engine bother there son?', confused and surprised by this random helpful man, I said pointing under the bonnet 'No, just loading my messages (Scottish for shopping)' His turn to look confused and surprised!

[raygreenwood]

Yeah ...one night in Dallas in a seedy section of town....I'm in line at a
7-11...and some guy tries to lure me to the parking lot by saying "hey man...there is all kind of fluid leaking out of your front end. I think you might need some help with your radiator"..... ...yeah...whatever man!
Its not my car your are thinking about!.

Yeah as we have hashed through before...the nose high attitude is a real problem. The spring rate is actually excellent for this car...its just that they didn't get the shock valving and length correct to be able to do what they wanted.
What they had in mind is a car with a massive trunk. They got that right....but they also set the shocks and spring lengths up to work very well when th trunk is loaded....but not correct for when its unloaded.
The audi strut and adaptor stub modification not only fixes that by compressing thespring slightly...giving load carrying ability for a full trunk...but also keeps the car dead level when its unloaded...has correct valving for the spring rate and compression length.....and also is roughly double the actual control rate. Very flat stable ride.

The visibility whiel driving is nearly the best of any car I have driven in teh 411/412 sedans. Nice windhield rake, and a wide well angled rear window with B pillar placed well to the rear. The ergonomics of lever placement and feel is superb....yes...its the same column and wheel as late type 3 and super....but it is some of the best ergonomics around.

Once you get a car that is cleaned up, has proper seats, no water leaks and a functioning heater.....these cars are an absolute joy to drive. The interior shape of the sedans also has some of the best accoustics I have seen for great stereos. Ray

[Bill K.]

Satified with:
+ manual gearing
+ motor power band
+ fuel injection
+ turbo heat/fresh air blower
+ window vent slits
+ seat comfort and adjustability
+ visibility
+ 2-door styling
+ build quality
+ unibody with replaceable fenders
+ ride quality
+ limited production quantity
+ 70's simplicity

Improvement requests:
+ 4-door variant
+ center console with +4 inches of body width
+ cup holder
+ front speaker kick panels
+ heat exhaust pipe relocated to ease right side valve adjustment
+ master cylinder outside cabin
+ adjustable suspension
+ 300 hp
+ 10" wide rear tires
+ big vented disk brakes
+ no chrome
+ front/rear valance with bumpers
+ integrated headlight/signal
+ third brake light

[wildthings]

About three times the air flow through the defroster and heater would suit me well. Along with a front end that doesn't give problems that is.

[Lars S]

My plus and minus for the 412 (not ranked):

+I love those chairs!
+A good climber in cross country and snow conditions
+No problem wearing a hat when seated
+Plenty of leg room in the back seat
+Jack lifts both wheels
+Overall finish in every detail
+D-jet makes engine immidiately run perfect at start at -30C and +30C
+Still one of the nicest backs at the parking lot...

-The 2,0 100hp "412GTE" was never available


Lars S

[412s2]

Things I miss when driving other cars:

-Great 360 degree visibility
-Very well balanced chassis (makes it easy to jack up onto axle stands!), when my 412 retired from being my daily driver and I bought an 2.3 Audi 90, I missed how sweetly the 412 turned into a bend. That tall, heavy lump of cast iron slung out in front of the 90 was always a little reluctant to change direction! Combined with the long travel suspension, relatively light body with soft springs, it's amazing how a Type 4 can hustle over the twisty, undulating and poorly maintained back roads we have in Scotland and yet remain impressively comfortable! My Variant has the rear anti-roll bar of a saloon fitted, the best improvement I ever made!
-Quick, but light unassisted steering
-Good traction in slippy conditions, means you can quickly and safely pull out into fast moving traffic and also get the power down quickly when exiting a wet roundabout without the car wheel-spinning or stepping out of line. A torquey engine and front-wheel drive is so frustrating when it's slippery!
-Not bad in a side-wind despite what all the press said 40 years ago. I've been genuinely impressed with how my Type 4 handles in the wind, it's not as good as my Audi 90 was, but it's at least as good as my old slab-sided Audi 100 quattro and way better than the Types 2 and 3 I used to drive!
-D-jet makes for reliable starting and smooth power delivery no matter what the weather is like.
-Eberspacher on frosty mornings means your car can be heating up and defrosting while you are still munching your toast or drinking your morning cup of tea!
-Nice well oiled feel and weight to all the operating levers and switches, best gearchange of any car I have had! It's a shorter change than my Porsche with a quick-shift kit!!
-No creaking or rattling plastic!
-Fuel filler at the front!! Means you can pull up close to someone's back bumper and start filling as soon as they are finished rather than just sit there waiting for them to go pay, go pee or peruse the magazines and other groceries re-fueling stations seem to be packed with these days before moving to let you access the pump!
-The thrum of the flat-4

Things that could be improved...

-It's not an easy car to get into, the squab of the front seat is too close to the A-piller. Even when the seat is right back, my 60 year old arthritic father complains about how difficult it is to get his legs in (he's very tall), my 90 year old grandmother finds it impossible to access!
-On right-hand-drive cars, because the front wheel arches intrude into the footwell, the accelerator pedal is offset quite far over to the left, so you have to sit at a funny angle when driving, It's annoying upon first acquaintance, but you do adapt! I would have preferred the car if they had moved the front axle 10cms further forward, increasing the wheelbase, reducing the wheel arch intrusion and possibly allowing the door access to be improved (have you seen how the Porsche 911's doors sweep forward at the base of the windscreen?)
-The brakes on the 412 have great feel and stop the car well, but they do need a good hard shove without power assistance!

Options I would have liked...

-Wouldn't swap my 3-door for one, but it would have been nice to have the option of a 5-door Variant.
-More comprehensive instrumentation from the factory, temperature gauges and a rev-counter at least
-914 discs of the back
-100 BHP 2 litre 914 engine with the 5-speed box
-All 4 headlamps switching to main-beam rather than the outer lamps switching to the inner.
-Rear anti-roll bar on the Variant

[raygreenwood]

Actually quite a few of the deficiencies complained about I have already fixed.

(1)No chrome....no problem. I still have a few holes to weld up...but its going to look great.

(2) third brake light. I have run the wiring and it works. I have not decided on what model or design of light. I am going to go to all LED's for all of my marker and brake lights...so I might use something original equipment-esque and modify it....like maybe a slice of a 74 variant tail lamp housing.

(3) Master cylinder outside of the cabin. Done.
I have the original stamping in the body drilled out where the power system would have gone through. I have installed an inside support ring with two 8mm bolts protruding into the trunk. I have the push rod interchange built. I have one more bracket to produce. I will be installing the 21mm unit from a late bus (I think its 21mm) and running new lines to unions at the old lines so as not to destroy the original in case I want to go back. The good part of this is also that the pushrod assembly can have its ratio changed simply by moving the rod to a different hole and adjusting it. That means that you can accomplish the same cylinder stroke length with anywhere from 1/4 to 3/4 less pedal stroke. Yes...leverage increases...but it will make for a very taught pedal with short stroke...like 2" max.

(4) suspension adjustability is no problem. Its really already there...just needs a few bits. The front end castor is "splittable" from side to side from the factory. Lengthening the front bolt holes on a mill or a drill press and then a quick spot weld on each side for reinforcement will yiled a decent amount of extra castor adustment and still allow splitting ot baacning from left to right. The camber adjustment is a simple mater of 10 minutes each side with a die grinder after marking center and scribing an oval...and installing eccentric bolts (about $5 each at any suspension shop)...and an 8mm allen screw as a stop. Toe-in you already have.
The rear already has ample toe adjustment. If you pull of the rear trailing wishbone brackets and widen the holesin the beam on one or both of the inner or outer bracket...including the holes in the strengthening blocks inside.....then install a single bolt from below to push upward on the strengthening blocks inside of the beam on the outer bracket only...you now have camber adjustment. It takes about two hours on each side.

(5) Headlamp switching. Done. You need to run some extra wire and an extra relay. Since I have twin batteries the inner high beams run to the 2nd battery when they are on. But...I found that when you have upgraded headlights like I do...its not necessary to run inner and outers on high. I have Hella 75/100's H-4 outers (I think they are 75/100. They may be 65/100...but they are 100W high) and crystal clear Hella HB-2's 100 watt inner high beams. Plenty of light.

(6) Rev counter. I finished the rev counter a couple of years ago and have not had it on the road yet so...maybe this year. I dissasembled a clock, stripped the face, re-painted it and screen printed the clock and all new warning light symbols. I had to do some grinding to make everything fit well with a 2-1/16th VDO tach unit put in from the back. It just barely fits over the fuel gauge and needs a shaft extension. It also barely squeezes in because of the short room behind the gauge. Looks nice, functions...just need to get the car back on the road. Ray

[412s2]

Ray, you really need to post some pictures to inspire us all!!!!

Albert sent me a picture of the converted clock/rev counter he's been working on.



It looks very impressive!!

[raygreenwood]

Very similar. Whats it out of originally? I have never seen one with the warning lights at the bottom. Mine looks just like factory and is not far off of factory looking in the back. It looks almost like something "Ford" made.
The toughest part was getting the black paint of the factory finish. I think I got it about 90%. I may have to redo teh speedo as well to make sure they match. I'm hoping the get the car out of storage not far from Christmas. Ray

[albert]

not,,exactly,, the front frame is from old clock on the 412 and the rpm is from a old jetta 85-90 they run no.1 with 3 wire on the coil and point cap.,,albert oh plus some hand made job,,