Front mounted oil cooler advice...

Eddie Brown · Post by **Eddie Brown** » Thu Oct 04, 2001 11:55 pm

Hi guys, I'm new to the forum and I think it's great! I'm building a T4 2.6 Ltr. for my super beetle. I want to run an oil cooler behind the front grill. My car had the dealer installed a/c. I still have the housing for the condenser unit, the two small fans (they still work!) I'd like to know what kind of oil cooler I should use in this application ? I plan on running it off a thermostatically controlled sandwich plate adapter, and the fans with an in-line thermo-switch.
I'd like to hear any suggestions, draw from the experience of others in this project.
I forgot to mention that I'm using a 36 hp shroud w/extended doghouse for the type 4 oil cooler also.

Thanks,

Eddie.

jakriz · Post by **jakriz** » Fri Oct 05, 2001 8:05 am

G'day Eddie,
I was just about to post a similar question. This weekend I'm putting an external cooler up under my front bumper. It's from a Mazda RX7 & it's huge so it should help with the long hot summers downunder. I won't be bothered putting a thermostat on it until winter comes again.
regards
Jak

Michael Ghia · Post by **Michael Ghia** » Fri Oct 05, 2001 8:21 am

You might also look at the Mercedes oil cooler from the 123 series. This is the unit that all the German guys use. They are not cheap brand new but you can usually find one in a scrap yard somewhere. I think they came on the 280E/280TE and 300D/300TD models.
Mike Ghia

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Modification is a form of Art.

Travis · Post by **Travis** » Fri Oct 05, 2001 9:00 am

I'm going to ask a stupid question here so flame away, or educate me

Is this mod more for the cool factor? Seems awfully far to string your oil pressure out all the way to the front of the car for cooling? All the cars mentioned that you are getting the coolers from have front mounted engines so it makes sense there?!

Travis

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The Story of a Ghia

stevestromberg · Post by **stevestromberg** » Fri Oct 05, 2001 9:34 am

I use a RX7 cooler mounted baja style below the back window.It works very well even with surfboards on the roof blocking the air flow over the car. I drive 70mph in 100 degrees and can remove the dipstick with my bare hand. Steve

Derrick from NC · Post by **Derrick from NC** » Fri Oct 05, 2001 10:17 am

What type of fittings are required for the RX-7 cooler or will standard oil 1/2" i.d. hose slip on?
Also what years RX-7 should I look for to get the correct cooler?
I was considering a Setrap but their pretty expensive.

Eddie Brown · Post by **Eddie Brown** » Fri Oct 05, 2001 2:53 pm

Hi Travis, the modification will be for practical use; I does get pretty hot around here in the summer, and ocasionally I do travel through the canyons and high deserts.
Like Michael said, the oil will run through the cooler only when the temperature of the oil reaches 170-180 F. It wouldn't really be for looks because you cannot see it...
I'll be looking at those Mercedes units for sure at our local wrecking yards.
How about using the a/c condenser for application ? It does have the correct dimentions? Let me know what you guys think.

Thanks,

Eddie

jakriz · Post by **jakriz** » Fri Oct 05, 2001 11:03 pm

I want mine up front as the oil is getting too hot on the track. I was going to leave my number plate in front of it on the street so that it wouldn't get as much air & then just take it off for the track. My needle is going off the guage after 5 laps at a constant 5000rpm plus. My cooler is off the very early RX7 models & I'm just fitting lines up to the existing fittings. Does anyone see anything wrong with this before I go out & do it??
regards
Jak

Michael Ghia · Post by **Michael Ghia** » Sat Oct 06, 2001 12:16 am

Travis,
I guess it just depends on how hot the oil gets. Really when building an engine or sorting out how hot it's going to get, you should look at Cyl head temp as that's what heats the oil the most.
The only time I've ever mounted an oil cooler (pair of) up front on a car was on a race 356. It is a track car and uses a small diameter bottom pulley with high rpm and less hp being robbed from the fan.
Otherwise I'd be happy enough to mount it at the back somewhere, next to the gearbox. Usually just having the oil comming out of the engine, through oil lines and into a coller which is open to the elements is enough.
Most of the performance engines have enough oil pressure from their Mellings etc to provide the oil coolers and the motor aswell. I would never think of fitting a cooler up front to a road car without a thermostat in line, it would never get hot! The only thing you have to do is prime the oil system before you start it, just to make sure the motor has oil pressure.
Mike Ghia

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Modification is a form of Art.

Rallybug · Post by **Rallybug** » Mon Oct 08, 2001 5:01 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jakriz:
<B> Does anyone see anything wrong with this before I go out & do it??
regards
Jak</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's what Porsche Salzburg did for the rally cars back in the early '70s - they used either Porsche 908 or M-B 250SE oil coolers behind the aircon vents in the front apron. As they were running 125bhp 1600s, I'd imagine that they needed the extra cooling even on rallies like Sweden and Finland - they probably didn't put them by the gearbox because of possible damage from gravel etc from the rough roads.

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Ben

www.rallybugs.com

Travis · Post by **Travis** » Mon Oct 08, 2001 10:20 am

Thanks guys, you pretty well confirmed my thoughts, in a race application I can certainly understand, and Mike, yes I do agree w/ a separate oil cooler doing a fine job in the rear, I feel better now, you may proceed

Until recently I lived in S. Florida, I've never had a performance engine in my cars, but I've not seen my oil temps in the dead of summer climb above the 140°-150° mark, so you can understand my confusion. Thanks again.

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The Story of a Ghia

Michael Ghia · Post by **Michael Ghia** » Tue Oct 09, 2001 1:07 pm

Jak, one cool mod I saw when someone used the Mercedes Cooler was to spray it black and then mask it up and spray paint the white letters onto it so that it looked like a number plate. I'm not too sure if having extra paint on it is a good idea as too much paint will clog the cooler but you could put a guard infront of it and do the same with that.
Mike Ghia

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Modification is a form of Art.

Eddie Brown · Post by **Eddie Brown** » Wed Oct 10, 2001 2:04 am

Hi guys, I have a quick question regarding MBz oil coolers. Are those engine oil coolers, or automatic transmission oil coolers ? Thanks.

Eddie

jakriz · Post by **jakriz** » Wed Oct 10, 2001 7:33 am

Hi Mike,
I've actually mounted it above my gearbox for now, it's just that my next event with the Porsche guys is next weekend so I'm running out of time to do stuff. I don't have a fan on it but I figure that just getting the oil out of the case should have an effect on the oil temps, the cooler is huge as well. If it's not that effective I'll put it up front under the bumper when I get time. I'll see how it goes where it is. I could even put a couple of electric Kombi fans running up to it as well for constant flow. Any ideas?
Jak

DaveM · Post by **DaveM** » Thu Oct 11, 2001 2:40 pm

Hi All:

Oil coolers have a couple of benefits as most who have posted here already have pointed out. They take oil out of the very hot engine environment, cool it and add certain quantities of oil over and above the stock capacity. We all know that if some is good more must be better! That said, fitting a cooler in a clean airstream must be even more beneficial.

A hundres years ago (seems like that long) when I was racing we always placed the cooler at the front of the car to get it into a clear, cool location where the air actually flowed over and through it. This includes rear engined cars, and we also put the water radiators at the front of those cars too. Conversely, on a number of front engined cars we put radiators in the rear with large ducting into and out of it. This was for weight distribution reasons.

So for what it's worth, I'd say a front mounted cooler in a bug carries three benefits, cooler oil (obviously!), more oil, and slightly more weight up front. That said, I'd run a thermostat, even NASCAR guys find engine oil can run too cool sometimes!

DaveM