411/412 racecar pictures
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jfe
- Posts: 47
- Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 1:31 pm
Day -8 for my first race of season.
Mégasquirt with race setting => ready
Videorecorder in 411 => ready
Driver => ready
i take a new tourism tires (195/65/15) on 1303 big wheel. it's better than 165/80/15...
i have change a mouting (? not sure for translation) on rear sway bar. i have cut a new on urethan parts for front A-Arm Bushing Golf1.
jeremy
Mégasquirt with race setting => ready
Videorecorder in 411 => ready
Driver => ready
i take a new tourism tires (195/65/15) on 1303 big wheel. it's better than 165/80/15...
i have change a mouting (? not sure for translation) on rear sway bar. i have cut a new on urethan parts for front A-Arm Bushing Golf1.
jeremy
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Piledriver
- Moderator
- Posts: 22760
- Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 12:01 am
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jfe
- Posts: 47
- Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 1:31 pm
Jani,
it's finish.
I drive on raceway, yesterday.
No pics actually, several days again.
With a new rear shoc absorber (kyb 5406), it's very good.
But on front with a KYB KC4017 Strut Insert is not good. i find more hard
My engine is very good with a mégasquirt, but my exhaust stop @ 5500rpm
For a mount, see my blog:
http://blog.flat4ever.com/jfe/
just one pic on 411 (@ 125km/h)
jeremy
it's finish.
I drive on raceway, yesterday.
No pics actually, several days again.
With a new rear shoc absorber (kyb 5406), it's very good.
But on front with a KYB KC4017 Strut Insert is not good. i find more hard
My engine is very good with a mégasquirt, but my exhaust stop @ 5500rpm
For a mount, see my blog:
http://blog.flat4ever.com/jfe/
just one pic on 411 (@ 125km/h)
jeremy
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raygreenwood
- Posts: 11907
- Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:01 am
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jfe
- Posts: 47
- Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 1:31 pm
Jani,
no weight actually because a fender is not finish. But i said to you when it's ready to paint.
Another pics, see on rear, a spring is complety compress.
Ray:
see here for front shock,
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_ ... 0&start=20
it's good to drive to go on my job, but on raceway... no!!
i think buy a Audi shock ...
jeremy
no weight actually because a fender is not finish. But i said to you when it's ready to paint.
Another pics, see on rear, a spring is complety compress.
Ray:
see here for front shock,
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_ ... 0&start=20
it's good to drive to go on my job, but on raceway... no!!
i think buy a Audi shock ...
jeremy
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jfe
- Posts: 47
- Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 1:31 pm
my 411 setting on raceway:
front:
195/60/15 BF goodrich with wheel 1303 5.5 ET40
caliper stock, sway bar stock
KC4017 kyb with bmw spring
rear:
195/65/15 michelin with wheel 1303 5.5 ET34
brake T3 stock, sway bar stock with urethan mount (see up on my blog)
KC5406 kyb with original spring ( yellow)
Engine:
1679cc stock with megasquirt.
Exhaust simple T-bird with an exit Remus (85dB max on raceway)
For to go on raceway, i go with a little trailer, and only 9,5L/100km @ 130km/H on hightway...
jeremy
front:
195/60/15 BF goodrich with wheel 1303 5.5 ET40
caliper stock, sway bar stock
KC4017 kyb with bmw spring
rear:
195/65/15 michelin with wheel 1303 5.5 ET34
brake T3 stock, sway bar stock with urethan mount (see up on my blog)
KC5406 kyb with original spring ( yellow)
Engine:
1679cc stock with megasquirt.
Exhaust simple T-bird with an exit Remus (85dB max on raceway)
For to go on raceway, i go with a little trailer, and only 9,5L/100km @ 130km/H on hightway...
jeremy
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raygreenwood
- Posts: 11907
- Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:01 am
OK, the rear compression...is NOT spring compression...it is body twist mostly. The important thing to note in your photograph is that the front stays relatively level.....but the drivers side from wheel pulls up.
The main thing I have found is that the sway bars on the 411/412 were excellently calibrated. In other words they have the correct level of proportional progressiveness......but....like the shock absorbers, they are roughly 50% of the amount of tension they needed to be.
What I have done is to take an early (straight) 17mm 411/412 bar and also also a late 15.5mm "cranked" bar and clamp them together using modified superbeetle front sway bar bushing set. I cut away the lower later bars outer link stubs. So....you get exactly double what the factory had for rear sway control. Use Urethane outer link donuts where the links are clamped to the trailing arms.
Also...press out the rear trailing wishbone bushings and have new ones made of Delrin with a steel bushing in the center. Same for the front control arms. Get a solid bronze control arm bushing if you have not already.Worlds better.
The front stock sway bar is more than enough
The link to the samba for that KG 4017 did not work. What vehicle is it originally from?
The front stock valving on the strut cartridges were excellent. Just that the actual amount of compression and rebound pressure generated by the stock spec cartridge is roughly 50% of what is needed. The Audi/Quantum cartridge fixes that and has nearly identical valving.
It is perfect for track. My 198 lbs of jumping on my front bumper creates a push down of about 1/4"...
...no kidding...yet I can take most "sleeping policemen" at about 30+ mph. Superb strut for this car.
It can only be used in the GR2 version. The high pressure gas adjust versions will snap your ball joints in about 3k miles.
Why did you change to BMW springs? The stock ones (blue series)...with slight lowering by added compression...using the Audi/quantum cartridge...would never have allowed that level of front end body roll seen in your pictures. They are that good....The stock springs are so progressive and so much more than the vehicle needed. it a matter of getting the correct strut pressure rating. Ray
Also...get rid of the yellow springs and find some blue ones for the rear. Its not much of a difference...but perhaps 10-12%
The main thing I have found is that the sway bars on the 411/412 were excellently calibrated. In other words they have the correct level of proportional progressiveness......but....like the shock absorbers, they are roughly 50% of the amount of tension they needed to be.
What I have done is to take an early (straight) 17mm 411/412 bar and also also a late 15.5mm "cranked" bar and clamp them together using modified superbeetle front sway bar bushing set. I cut away the lower later bars outer link stubs. So....you get exactly double what the factory had for rear sway control. Use Urethane outer link donuts where the links are clamped to the trailing arms.
Also...press out the rear trailing wishbone bushings and have new ones made of Delrin with a steel bushing in the center. Same for the front control arms. Get a solid bronze control arm bushing if you have not already.Worlds better.
The front stock sway bar is more than enough
The link to the samba for that KG 4017 did not work. What vehicle is it originally from?
The front stock valving on the strut cartridges were excellent. Just that the actual amount of compression and rebound pressure generated by the stock spec cartridge is roughly 50% of what is needed. The Audi/Quantum cartridge fixes that and has nearly identical valving.
It is perfect for track. My 198 lbs of jumping on my front bumper creates a push down of about 1/4"...
...no kidding...yet I can take most "sleeping policemen" at about 30+ mph. Superb strut for this car.It can only be used in the GR2 version. The high pressure gas adjust versions will snap your ball joints in about 3k miles.
Why did you change to BMW springs? The stock ones (blue series)...with slight lowering by added compression...using the Audi/quantum cartridge...would never have allowed that level of front end body roll seen in your pictures. They are that good....The stock springs are so progressive and so much more than the vehicle needed. it a matter of getting the correct strut pressure rating. Ray
Also...get rid of the yellow springs and find some blue ones for the rear. Its not much of a difference...but perhaps 10-12%
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jfe
- Posts: 47
- Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 1:31 pm
Ray:
i buy a shock on classic garage like anglodeutch4 on thesamba gallery.
Page 13 on 411/412 gallery.
why bmw spring ?
because with a stock string (yellow), a rear is more down than front, with a new shock absorber.
With a bmw spring, front = rear, and it's more hard (just little)
in France, only 45 411/412 is in life!!! no parts !!!
found a blue spring ? yes i would, but impossible in France...
i go to buy a front sway bar on 412, it's bigger than 411.
And my english is very basic, i'm not sure to understand your all explanation
have you a pics?
jeremy
i buy a shock on classic garage like anglodeutch4 on thesamba gallery.
Page 13 on 411/412 gallery.
why bmw spring ?
because with a stock string (yellow), a rear is more down than front, with a new shock absorber.
With a bmw spring, front = rear, and it's more hard (just little)
in France, only 45 411/412 is in life!!! no parts !!!
found a blue spring ? yes i would, but impossible in France...
i go to buy a front sway bar on 412, it's bigger than 411.
And my english is very basic, i'm not sure to understand your all explanation
have you a pics?
jeremy
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raygreenwood
- Posts: 11907
- Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:01 am
Sorry....my car is 1500 miles from here in storage. It will be that way for a couple of months.
OK....the yellow springs should be ok. As I noted, the difference is actually that the blue springs while being stiffer....actually have a little less load carrying capacity.
When designating the coil springs it was not just a matter of stiffer or lighter....it was a combination of more and less coils with a different wire cross section and temper.
The front sway bar will make no difference which one you use....early 411 or late 412. Sway control is not the real issue with the front end....because there is very little weight in comparison to the rear.....so very little enertia.
The rear is very heavy for its position and the total body length. Also, there is much flex at the trailing wishbone joints.
When using the Audi struts, the front end will come down and will automatically also raise the rear slightly.
You also really should switch from the 411 strut bushings to the late 412 strut bushings. It will require some small modifications but the 411 strut bushings were a weakness. Ray
OK....the yellow springs should be ok. As I noted, the difference is actually that the blue springs while being stiffer....actually have a little less load carrying capacity.
When designating the coil springs it was not just a matter of stiffer or lighter....it was a combination of more and less coils with a different wire cross section and temper.
The front sway bar will make no difference which one you use....early 411 or late 412. Sway control is not the real issue with the front end....because there is very little weight in comparison to the rear.....so very little enertia.
The rear is very heavy for its position and the total body length. Also, there is much flex at the trailing wishbone joints.
When using the Audi struts, the front end will come down and will automatically also raise the rear slightly.
You also really should switch from the 411 strut bushings to the late 412 strut bushings. It will require some small modifications but the 411 strut bushings were a weakness. Ray
