Tuning 2.1 Wasserboxer

David Pickles · Post by **David Pickles** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:57 am

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:50 pm Post subject: Tuning 2.1 Wasserboxer

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I am wanting more power from my current 2.1 DJ Engine
I like the engine do not want to change to Suburu, Porsche or other
Anybody got any ideas. I don't want to spend the earth and will be doing the work myself.
Will have to run on LPG, currently does
Looking for 150hp
The options I have considered are

1. Supercharge the 2.1 using a eaton (mini) supercharger off e-bay
Has anybody done this already
Needs lower compression What? What pistons to use.
What throttle body to use
Will have to run on petrol occasionally, get me home. on the current
injection system.

2. Turbo charge 2.1
Has been done commercially
150 hp in SA and Germany
Anybody any details turbo etc
I know there is a turbo wasserboxer bug racing out there.
Also there was a 2.1 turbo t25 at the pod once what happened to it
anybody any details.

3. Increase capacity
I know BAS in germany used to sell stroker cranks
and larger capacity barrels and pistons
Go West in th US do stroked motors
http://www.gowesty.com/new_engine.htm
Anyone done one in the UK
Any one in the UK that can weld and offset grind a crank.

4. Increase capacity plus forced induction
_________________
1989 2.1 LPG Camper
1990 1.9td Syncro DOKA
1988 1.6td Syncro Ambulance

Club 80-90 Membership

akciddento · Post by **akciddento** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:47 pm

david,
as with my reply on brickyard

i run the junkyard turbo wbx that was at the pod...

on a STOCK £200 junk engine & a junk turbo & a junk kjet injection system with only 4lb of boost it made around 140bhp at the flywheel...

the quick recommendation for more power is

change exhaust & muffler for better flow
change intake for something less restrictive
bolt on 1.4 ratio rockers
tune it all...

aircooled.net sell 82mm cranks that run with standard rods non-
counterweighted $650, counterweighted $750
http://aircooled.net/new-bin/viewproductdetail.php?
keyword2=ECR0021&cartid=0221200644905605

with 94mm barrels makes 2276cc ... add this to a dynamically balanced
blueprinted engine with extra bolt on goodies like a programmable EFI
and you should start finding the horsepower you're looking for....
(my old 2332type 1 EFI motor made far more than the 150bhp you're
looking for...)

the longer version is wait a few months until the engineering is worked
out and there may be a bolt on turbo/EFI solution available for a wbx....

blueprinted engine & tuning & EFI & turbo & a dab of nitrous = lots of
giggles

Post by **Piledriver** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:32 pm

The wasser chamber is pretty detonation resistant, from all I can tell.

The nice way to go would be to get the 96x82 setup from GoWesty, with the Wiseco pistons and CrMo rods. This will give you ~9:1 CR, but that is likely a feature, not an issue.

The Easiest way out would be the Eaton and a charge cooler, with the rad stuffed up in the elephant ears, and a set of 1.4 rockers.
Even a stock 2.1 wants a set of better rods, or at least ARP 914 bolts or BBC 3/8" ones.

Around 150HP is the generally limit on the stock rods, BTW.

I'd go CIS if that's an option, otherwise MS gets the nod.

Mazda Millennias have an interesting long/skinny screw type SC you sometimes see on E-Bay for cheap, supposed to be quite efficient.
Hard part is redoing all the acc drive for serpentine belts.

One could likely put it where the PS pump was, and use an electric drive PS pump off a modern Japanese car.

farmer · Post by **farmer** » Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:37 am

The way I look at it

I am in the middle of doing exactly that. But I have chosen the turbo way, and on a 1,9. I´m using a Web 119 cam on 112 LC for 3 reasons. I want to spread the torque band and make it a little less "off - on" And finally I wanted to get rid of the hydro lifters in this setup. The 1,9 has 8,6 - 1 CR which is perfect for me. I am using the runners and plenum from a 2,1 DJ engine. IMHO there is no need to start messing around with different intake tubing etc until you want to go past 180 hp or so.
WRT controlling the EFI, there is a guy around here, that is a wizard with reprogramming the stock EFI. He said that I need a set of jets from a Saab 9000 turbo (whatever size they are)
I am using a watercooled turbo from a Passat 1,8T (T25 I think) And also an intercooler, possibly from a Mercedes VITO, which will be located in the left airintake tunnel
Header is going to be a homebreewed 1½". muffler (?) as much as needed to keep the noise at stock level. Most likely a 2" free flow Simons oval muffleror a Magnaflow.
We ran the setup through a friends (cheap) desktop dyno, with all the info that we knew about it, and it said 165 hp / 235 Nm torque @ 10 psi. That will be sufficient for me.

In your case with the DJ. You need to lower the CR no matter which solution you choose, when charged that is. The DJ runs 10,6 -1 CR and that is way too high for Forced induction, even on LPG.
- Find a set of pistons from a MV or SS engine. That way you get 9-1 CR, which will be great for LPG. One nice thing about the "Eaton way" is that you -can- if you want, install it with the clutch as on the Mazda, Toyota or Mercedes, where they normally come from. Then you do not have to run it when youre just cruising and dont need extra power. It will require some extra innovations in tubing, but absolutely possible.

Anyway you choose, forced induction will make a 150 hp easily on a 2,1.
T.

fastback · Post by **fastback** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:30 pm

I have a 2,1 WBX in my oval.
Using stock pistons from a MV engine. 9,0:1
I have replaced the cam to Engle TCS-10 turbogrind.
T-3 turbo
Stock heads
I also have a water-to-air intercooler and Megajolt ignition to control the timing which is crusual on this type of setup. as you destroy the stock cast pistons very quick with a few degrees to much ignition.
have a couple of broken pistons to prove it

i'm also using dual WBX efi (one on each head) with different injectors

at ca 0,9 bar boostpressure i have run 12,65@181Km/H in a full weight Oval on street tyres and stock 1300S tranny.
which i asume is 200+ HP

WBX Man · Post by **WBX Man** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 3:20 am

Hi...

I'm doing a Eaton (slk230) WBX project with a vented air to air intercooler, using a 1.9 piston and crank (CR 8,6:1)

I planed to use CB Engle 2236 (which I already have) , but maybe I will buy a TCS 10 or Web 119
The engine is not intended to exceed 6500, and is to be installed in a bus
MS EFI with spark control, solid T1 lifters, 1.25 bolt up valve train, with Porsche style adjusters.
Hope to get 160-170 hp out of it !

piledriver wrote:Around 150HP is the generally limit on the stock rods, BTW.

Is that true !? - if it is, what rods can replace stock rods ?

Do I need strait cut cam gears ?

fastback wrote: I have replaced the cam to Engle TCS-10 turbogrind.
T-3 turbo
Stock heads
I also have a water-to-air intercooler and Megajolt ignition to control the timing which is crusual on this type of setup. as you destroy the stock cast pistons very quick with a few degrees to much ignition.
have a couple of broken pistons to prove it
i'm also using dual WBX efi (one on each head) with different injectors.

What about your con-rods ?

fastback · Post by **fastback** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 3:55 am

I'm using stock rod's
used it for 2 seasons now

marcotheturbosteamengine · Sun Mar 12, 2006 10:00 am

200bhp is easy with a mv piston 2.1 with 10psi of boost, 250bhp at 15psi and a max on pumpgas (98ron) 280bhp/300ftbl at 18psi but you must inter/charge-cool the intake,
for get about making the motor bigger, just BOOST IT.

420bhp/480ftlb 63 street turbo wasser

Joe vw · Post by **Joe vw** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 8:48 pm

Has anyone used one of these:
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/s ... &langId=-1
On a low boost stock 2.1 ? I have seen these on some of the later watercooled VWs at shows and was wondering if it would be adaquate for around 5lbs of boost on a Wasser. Would the injectors max out too soon?
It would be nice to not have to screw with the ECU , maybe just some tweeks to the airflow meter and coolent sensor resistance.

Joe vw · Post by **Joe vw** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 8:50 pm

Post by **Piledriver** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 10:33 pm

Looks like a neat idea.
2 questions:
1; How much extra fuel pressure can the old l-jet type injectors handle before losing bladder control, so to speak, and
2: How much pressure can an L-jet pump deliver?

The lowest rate they show (short of the $300 adjustable unit) is 4:1, so your example of 5 psi boost...: 36psi (normal) + 5psi boost X 4x rate=56 psi fuel pressure.

With much more boost or the 6:1/8:1 rate versions, one had better have a CIS pressure capable pump, lines, & injectors.

There are less expensive alternatives that likely have a better range, but this one appears to have a decent size diaphram, which Ray always mentions as a requirement for decent sensitivity.