radiator in the back

Gerrelt · Post by **Gerrelt** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 2:21 pm

I'm planning to place the radiator in the back of my 1973 1303 beetle.
See details:
http://home.tiscali.nl/~gmolhoek/alfa/r ... /index.htm

Tell me what you think of it.

Drbugfixer · Post by **Drbugfixer** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 8:43 pm

It worked for me on my swap....http://johnt94.tripod.com/

Gerrelt · Post by **Gerrelt** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:07 am

Cool!

Thanks for your link!

shmoishere · Post by **shmoishere** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 3:46 pm

Take a look at this link. I started a thread regarding the pros and cons of radiator placement. On page 3 you can see some pics of the rear radiator setup that I am currently building. It might give you some insight on a final decision.

SHMO

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=123408

Gerrelt · Post by **Gerrelt** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:37 am

shmoishere wrote:Take a look at this link. I started a thread regarding the pros and cons of radiator placement. On page 3 you can see some pics of the rear radiator setup that I am currently building. It might give you some insight on a final decision.

SHMO

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=123408

Hey, SHMO, I've been watching you on the off-road/kitcar form...

I've allready kept my eye on that thread.

Here's a thread I started on the aussieveedubbers forum, there's picture which might be of interest to you. Instead of using a leaf-blower (very smart thinking!

) there's a guy who used a very expensive piece of software to simulate the air-flow under and at the back of a baja beetle:
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/view ... ?tid=44693

You might have to register to be able to see the pictures, do it, it will be worth it!

Thanks for your reply!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 6:05 am

those pictures made me remember two holes in the back of my car right around the area where the scoop was made. that is making me think hmmm........

RXBeetle · Post by **RXBeetle** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 12:01 pm

I really like the location, and the images of the air flow really convinces me of the functionality. I have a jeep cherokee radiator

in the front of my super below/behind the bumper with twin 10" cooling fans.
This radiator would work pretty well for the package shelf location as well, it's low profile but cools very well (rotaries need a lot of cooling and it did just fine)
It may need to be shortened though, i'll have to measure and check. Still That is not hard to have done at a rad shop.
Routing the cooling was probably the most challenging part of my 12A conversion and this really simplifies everything. It sucks a lot when you first get it all together and a pinhole void in a solder joint springs a leak.
Bleeding the front to back cooling system is also pretty difficult, I overheated my engine twice (a big no no for rotaries) which is probably what lead to its early demise.

Gerrelt · Post by **Gerrelt** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:41 am

That's a nice radiator. I've got the radiator that belongs to the car my engine came out. It's also a pretty nice fit in the package shelf. It's aprox. 30x60 cm (12x24 inch), it's from an Alfa Romeo 33.

The two problems you mentioned (long coolant lines and air bleeding troubles) with the front mounted radiator are two of the reasons I really want to try this rear mounted radiator.

There ar two challenges with the radiator placed in the package shelf:
- sealing the interior of the bug from heat and noise
- as I have an IRS bug (1303 super beetle) I have to guide the air tubes around the rear diagonal trailing arms. It's possible, but you don't have much choices in how to route them.

Last saturday I started dismantling my car, I will take pictures when I get to placing the radiator and air-ducting.

Here's my latest update:
http://home.tiscali.nl/~gmolhoek/alfa/f ... /index.htm

bean_8044 · Post by **bean_8044** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:59 pm

Ive been tossing around a few ideas about the radiator. Right now behind the rear seat seems to be the best. If i had a different exhaust maybe taking out the rear skirt and placing the rad there, but then you have to worry about the decklid hitting it. Inside the fender, but then youd have to get two and thatd be a pain for bleeding. In front....not even going to try it. We just had our first snow today so that officially puts the project on hold

RXBeetle · Post by **RXBeetle** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:40 pm

There ar two challenges with the radiator placed in the package shelf:
- sealing the interior of the bug from heat and noise
- as I have an IRS bug (1303 super beetle) I have to guide the air tubes around the rear diagonal trailing arms. It's possible, but you don't have much choices in how to route them.

Nice car, I am working with a 1303 as well. I'll keep an eye on your progress. I'm pretty tied up at work and still working on new engine building so redoing my cooling is a little farther down on my to do list

I would like to mount the radiator (and my oil cooler) where the fire wall is. and then route air up from below by making an air dam that would hang right down from the bottom edge of the radiator, around the trans, and down to a few inches off the ground.
Fiberglass is probably the best bet with resealing the package shelf area. It is pretty easy to make a buck from construction foam and duct tape. It sounds goofy but you can cut/glue/sand the construction foam into what ever shape you want right in the car. The duct tape is just to prevent the resin from dissolving the foam buck and can help with comlicated compound curves in a corner. A lip from wide aluminum angle would give the fiberglass a nice mounting surface. Some weather stripping would complete the seal and stop vibration.
Temps back there are not that hot, the coolant is 180F so consider ambient air temp is considerably lower. Most plasic based insulation will take the temp. I like this: http://http://www.b-quiet.com/hliner.html
I would highly recomend finding a way to soft mount the fans. I dont know how the good ones are but I got cheap ones and they are loud even way up front. Any rubber gromets or foam spacer would be prefered.

Badvw68 · Post by **Badvw68** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 6:15 am

Im installing an EJ20T into a 68 Bug and I am thinking of doing the same as above with the Ford Pinto radiator set up. Attached is another interesting link of a guy who has installed an EJ20TT into a buggy, with the radiatior above the trans. Any additional pictures anyone has of a rear mounted radiatior would be great!

Thanks,
Alden in Central Illinois

http://www.empiimp.com/moran/images/ej2 ... index.html

Gerrelt · Post by **Gerrelt** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:49 am

RXBeetle wrote:Nice car, I am working with a 1303 as well. I'll keep an eye on your progress. I'm pretty tied up at work and still working on new engine building so redoing my cooling is a little farther down on my to do list

Thanx. I'm also pretty bussy with work and two (little) daughters, so don't expect too much updates on my site...

Temps back there are not that hot, the coolant is 180F so consider ambient air temp is considerably lower. Most plasic based insulation will take the temp. I like this: http://http://www.b-quiet.com/hliner.html
I would highly recomend finding a way to soft mount the fans. I dont know how the good ones are but I got cheap ones and they are loud even way up front. Any rubber gromets or foam spacer would be prefered.

That insulation stuff looks good, heat AND noise insulation in one! I'm gonna try to find something like that in my little country (the Netherlands).

I was planning to make the "radiator-box" out of alumium sheets, and then pop-rivet it all together. It's easy to bend, and lighter than steel.
But I believe I've read somewhere that fibreglass is good at noise and heat insulation? Won't you smell the fibreglass inside the car?

Yeah, rubber gromets or foam would be a good idea for the fan. Maybe I will support the entire radiator on rubber.

Gerrelt · Post by **Gerrelt** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:51 am

Badvw68 wrote:Im installing an EJ20T into a 68 Bug and I am thinking of doing the same as above with the Ford Pinto radiator set up. Attached is another interesting link of a guy who has installed an EJ20TT into a buggy, with the radiatior above the trans. Any additional pictures anyone has of a rear mounted radiatior would be great!

Here's one:

This bug is from a dutch guy. He says he has his fans spinning slowly all the time, and when it's needed it spinning faster. He says it works great, and doesn't overheat. But be aware, the Netherlands has a mild climate.

Gerrelt · Post by **Gerrelt** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:57 am

bean_8044 wrote:Ive been tossing around a few ideas about the radiator. Right now behind the rear seat seems to be the best. If i had a different exhaust maybe taking out the rear skirt and placing the rad there, but then you have to worry about the decklid hitting it.

Yeah, I thought about that too, but, there is very little room there, and you would have more weight behind the rear axle. Creating a strong enough support for it would also be a bit tricky.

Inside the fender, but then youd have to get two and thatd be a pain for bleeding. In front....not even going to try it. We just had our first snow today so that officially puts the project on hold

You would have to protect your radiator very good for debris and dirt flying around in your fenders. But, it looks like there's plenty of room for two small radiators on each side. Airflow might be a problem, especially the hot-air exit.

Gerrelt · Post by **Gerrelt** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 12:25 pm

another radiator in the back:

I got this picture from an advert from some Dutch site. The advert said that "it wasn't usable for everyday use". That might mean it overheated.. As far as I can see there's no airflow to this radiator, only the fans will create some airflow (if the dutch guy who bought it reads this, if you want me to remove the picture, just e-mail me).

And here's one from volkswagen itself:

I got these pictures from this aussieveedubbers.com thread:
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/view ... ?tid=40641
Apparently it's some experimental 2 cylinder (hence the room for the radiator) engine beetle.