Rear struts

Longbeach412 · Post by **Longbeach412** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 2:49 am

I am about to have the rear struts replaced. From searching the forum, I've gathered that the best candidate is the KYB KG5406. I understand from Lane's postings on the Samba they need to be altered somewhat. But I am a tad fuzzy on that. So here are my questions so far: 1st. Do I need to fish out the steel bushing or use the KYB as is? 2nd, The bolt deal. Do I just replace it with a shorter SAE bolt? Any clarifications to this area highly appreciated.

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 6:20 am

The only difference between the Ford part and the 411/412 part is the width of the bottom bushing. The type 4 part has teh same diameter bottom steel bushing...so your stock bolt will fit fine. When you look at the two parts next to each other...what you will needto do will be instantly clear. If memory serves, thhe steel tube bushing on the bottom...may be slightly shorter, A simple stack of washer will fix that. The bushing on teh 411/412 goes all teh way from side to side. The one on the ford is short. Drop into Pep boys or any flaps....and get 4 standard upper shock absorber bushings. Ream teh center hole and slip them over each end of the steel tube bushing on teh bottom of each shock. There is already plenty of laod capacity...you are simply extending the rubber bush to keep it from shifting from side to ide. Ray

Longbeach412 · Post by **Longbeach412** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:15 am

Ok, I think I get it. So its basically augmenting the geometry of the bottom part to duplicate the OEM. Just construct the missing rubber bushings out of standard ones. And, if still a bit short, add washers on the outside. Thanks Ray

Chris Hobbs · Post by **Chris Hobbs** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 2:21 pm

When I replaced my factory shocks with the KYB KG5406 shocks, I dremeled the ends off the original bushings, and used them to create fat spacers for the bushings on the Ford shocks. Takes a little more work the first time you do it, but also gives you good results.

Longbeach412 · Post by **Longbeach412** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 6:11 am

Thanks all for the ideas & clarifications. How much life can one except from the KYBs? I read 30K, true?

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 6:48 am

It varies. The problem with them is not performance or workmanship. I think it is an issue with the chemistry of the oil and nitrogen mixture. Under certain conditions....some related to driving...some probably weather/temperature related.....the fluid portion tends to "gel" slightly. This tends to makes the shocks overly stiff. I have been told that this is because the nitrogen leaks from one section to the other and creates a foam issue. It makes sense. In three seperate sets...this tended to occour in teh 30-45K mile range. But....I have sensed....that this has a bit to do with how hard the shock or strut is worked. If the strut or shock is upgraded a little...in capacity, it seems to have much higher milage.

I am speculating some of this....from the fact that in the KYB gas-a-just...you have high pressure nitrogen. It would be more prone to leak past its seals when pushed...say by a car that is slighty heavier than the valving equations are set up for.....or has too much junk in the trunk...or crappy roads...like say Detroit in the winter

. The speculation comes from the fact that I don't seem to see this problem at all on teh KYB Gr-2 low pressure units. Lower pressure...possibly less prone to leakage/mixing. I am further speculating that usage of the heavier versions that go into the 1 ton (versus the 3/4 ton) Ford...will do better and last longer....on the rear of the 411/412.
I further think it is leakage from pressure/overwork ...doing this "hardening"...due to the fact that if the car does not drive and it sits still for some reason....the shocks don't seem to degrade. Its definately driving them that causes this problem. Ray

Longbeach412 · Post by **Longbeach412** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 8:12 am

That sounds like a cycling issue then, not degradation. Looks like the KG5410 would be the better suited. Hmm....... shoulda asked earlier!, I already ordered the 05...

func412 · Post by **func412** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 8:50 am

I´d like to get little bit shorter rear struts to lowered 412. Do you guys have any idea which car has suitable and shorter struts to replace 412 originals?

Has anyone thought Opel Ascona B front struts?

ubercrap · Post by **ubercrap** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 2:06 pm

We don't get Opels in the U.S. anymore- The Cadillac Catera we got here at one time was a modified Opel Omega I think, but that's it. I'm not sure about shorter, but it looks like Bilstein makes a shock that could work in addition to the KYB, E200-350 Ford Van 75-91 Front part#: B46-1105

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 4:13 pm

I assume you are plannig to go to a shorter spring as well as the shorter shock right? Because just the shorter shock will preload the spring more. Yes...it lowers the car by essentially...."tying" the rear suspension down, but it also beats the total crap out of the shock by constantly banging it against its top stop. It causes the shock to leak out at an early rate.

I did this once...on my first 411. I will see if I can find a record of what the shock came from. It drove well. Just really short shock life....like 6 months. Ray

func412 · Post by **func412** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 8:40 am

Ok, I didn´t know you don´t have opel in US. Ascona B has been made in 1975-1980 or something like that. I´ll give you some information after I´ve researched this thing through.

I´m going to replace rear springs with shorter ones also. Now I´m looking after Transporter T3 springs.

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 12:08 pm

We have a few opels. Nothing newer than probably early 80's. They were all imports. I am not aware of any dedicated dealers. Ray

MGVWfan · Post by **MGVWfan** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 9:38 am

Howdy func412! You're lucky having access to Opels where you live, as noted above, other than the Caddy Catera, we've been "Opel-less" here in the Colonies for 30 years. I drove a Rekord in Germany in 1983 on the Autobahn, oh yeah, it was a sweet ride (until I got my doors blown off at 170 kph by a black Porsche 911

...but that's another story).

Opels made in Russelsheim were sold in the US by Buick dealers (usually) through 1975, when the switched to Isuzus branded as Opels (remember those insipid commercials with that Japanese guy talking about "the little car with lots of room"?). Yech! The last German model imported was (I believe) labelled "Manta", but may have been a Rekord in reality. They also sold the ever loving crud out of the Opel GT where I grew up, since it was considered the "poor mans Corvette" by many. I wouldn't mind having one of those with the 1.9L OHC engine from the 80's Rekord in it...most had the pushrod engine which was a bit underpowered for a sports car.

func412 · Post by **func412** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:40 am

Thanks for information! That´s new to me!

Old Opels are legendary but unfortunately after 1980 there has not been that desireable Opel car´s available. That is my opininion though. I think the realibility of Opel has reduced a lot since 1980.

Well, I think Opel manta is equipped with the same front struts than Opel Ascona. Within a few weeks i gather some infomation for you... and after that I´ll deliver a lots of desired Opel front struts to you, type 4 guys =)

ubercrap · Post by **ubercrap** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:43 am

My family had an Opel Manta when I was little, I can't quite remember the year of the car right now, early '70's IIRC. I still have fond memories of that car.