turboing a stock 1600

Chris Percival · Post by **Chris Percival** » Fri Sep 22, 2000 7:01 am

Can you turbo a stock 1600 engine with no modifications? What about a stock engine with 040 heads and a bigger cam? what kind of turbo would one need?

Chris

Derrick from NC · Post by **Derrick from NC** » Fri Sep 22, 2000 7:48 am

It can be done....both Rajay and Schwitzer long ago(20plus years) used to sell a turbo kit for the stock 1600 that utilizied the stock carb....heard it would run door to door with a mild dual weber 2180 back then.
Check with: http://www.turbocity.com/ http://www.cbperformance.com/ http://www.ce-vw.com/

I believe any one of the 3 could set you up with a bolt-on setup. However if you are talking about opening the case for a bigger cam(engle 100 or 110 would be a good choice for a small displacement engine...you don't need or want a lot of cam on a turbo engine) then I would a least install a set of 90.5's. This would bring displacement to 1776cc. I would also have the heads hemicut or install some copper spacers(head gaskets) between the cylinders and the heads to increase combustion chamber size to lower compression ratio. About 7:1 for a reliable daily driver.

Derrick from NC

Chris Percival · Post by **Chris Percival** » Fri Sep 22, 2000 8:36 am

I hear that turboed motors should have a lower cr, is this to be kind to head gaskets and the like? Would that be a problem with a standard engine?

beetle_freak_53 · Post by **beetle_freak_53** » Fri Sep 22, 2000 10:28 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris Percival:
I hear that turboed motors should have a lower cr, is this to be kind to head gaskets and the like? Would that be a problem with a standard engine?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Turboed engines require a lower c/r because the turbo increases the compression i.e. it's forced induction. Depending on a particular engine set-up a copper gasket/shim may be required if the c/r is increased dramatically. But a word to the wise: the higher the c/r the hotter the engine!

------------------
it's not a car...
it's a cult!!!

Derrick from NC · Post by **Derrick from NC** » Fri Sep 22, 2000 3:39 pm

Compression ratio is affectively increased when an engine is running
onboost. The early kits I mentioned from Rajay and Shlitzler both had low
boost. You will need someone to cc your heads(measure combustion chamber
volume) and measure the small volume remaining in your cylinder at TDC to
calculate your actual c.r. From there you determine what you need to do to
lower your c.r. to an acceptable level to run on boost of around 4-10
lbs.....either increase the volume of your combustion chamber by hemicutting
them or adding a copper head gasket. I plan to do a combination of both on
my future 2332 EFI intercooler turbo motor. I will be running relatively
high(7.5:1) c.r. with an adjustable boost of up to 12-15lbs. The precise
fuel delivery of EFI combined with the intercooler to lower the temp. of
the intake charge will give me more room to play. Modern turbo cars have
c.r. of up to 10:1 and run over 10 lbs. of boost....they also have computer
controlled ignition systems with knock sensors that allows them to run up to
the edge of detonation without any ill effects

Sharkey · Post by **Sharkey** » Fri Sep 22, 2000 9:30 pm

My turbo motor uses 7.75:1 CR (with semi-hemi combustion chambers), a maximum boost of 15 PSI, and programmable EFI to taylor the fuel and ignition at high boost levels. I said "fuel" because a richer mixture at high boost levels acts to cool the combustion chamber and reduce detonation. The semi-hemi cut is supposed to be good for an additional +0.3 CR with no increase in the likelihood of detonation, according to the late Gene Berg. 0.060" copper head gaskets were used in conjunction with carefully cc'd combustion chambers to arrive at the "seven and three-quarters" CR.

I haven't really driven my car under boost beyond about 8-9 PSI yet because I plan to use water injection to further cool the intake charge. Like a progressively richer mixture, water injection works to cool the intake charge. It also keeps the inside of the engine all nice and sparkily clean

But back on topic, it is certainly possible to turbocharge a bone stock 1600cc motor, although I would consider adding a counterweighted crank to let you reach those higher RPMs where the turbo *really* shines. A stock cam will be fine, as will stock heads. Porting and polishing isn't necessary since forced induction is more efficient than running a normally aspirated set-up.

According to CB Performance, a turboed 1600 can easily top 100 hp, and going with bigger jugs (as someone else recommended) puts 150 hp within easy reach. Both instances are said to have been dynoed using a "single 36mm carb"... whatever that means (ie: HP figures would probably be less when using the stock Solex carb). I'm pretty sure that they are referring to a single dual barrel 36mm Dellorto carb, which would have to be added to the final price tag for turbocharging your "bone stock" 1600cc.

[This message has been edited by Sharkey (edited 09-22-2000).]

Chris Percival · Post by **Chris Percival** » Mon Sep 25, 2000 1:20 am

Hmmm, very interesting! Thanks guys

)

grillos turbo · Post by **grillos turbo** » Mon Sep 25, 2000 11:01 pm

my vw engine
1600 stock et:21:00 seconds 1/4 mil 1600 stock turbo 17:50 sec. 1/4 mile
turbo garret TO 2,carburador stock.7 lbs boost
time et: 7000 ft. sea level over

Buggin69 · Post by **Buggin69** » Fri Nov 10, 2000 9:54 pm

why spend the money on turbo when you could get just as much or more out of more cc's for relitavely the same price

Sharkey · Post by **Sharkey** » Thu Nov 23, 2000 10:09 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Buggin69:
why spend the money on turbo when you could get just as much or more out of more cc's for relitavely the same price<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you were to compare a bone stock turbocharged 1600cc VW motor to a stroked & bored normally aspirated motor producing the exact same amount of peak horsepower, the turbo motor will provide much better longevity and fuel economy.

JohnConnolly · Post by **JohnConnolly** » Thu Nov 23, 2000 3:01 pm

I could give you a kit that would get 200hp out of a stock 1600, but it would only run for a few seconds. Most turbo modifications aren't for performance, they are so the engine doesn't grenade. The stock 1600 has many problems which are not addressed by turboing the sucker (4 dowel flywheel, etc).

steve stromberg · Post by **steve stromberg** » Thu Nov 23, 2000 11:19 pm

Plus for every 1000ft of elavation you lose about 10% of the power.That is why aerocraft use a turbosupercharger to boost power, so that it has same hp at sealevel as at 18000ft.Steve

eric · Post by **eric** » Sat Jan 27, 2001 1:09 pm

Danerius · Post by **Danerius** » Thu Mar 01, 2001 5:05 am

CSP of Germany has a turbo for the Mex-1600 with FI. Volksworld did a fature on it, cant remember what issue though.

bugsoup · Post by **bugsoup** » Tue Jan 15, 2002 4:49 pm

Hey, I just thought I'd look up an old topic instead of starting a new one.

I have all the parts I need to build an engine so I don't want to change the setup much. Parts so far other than stock: Engle 110 cam, counterweighted 69mm crank, and CB performance 044 heads (no porting or polishing yet), and Bosch 009 w/pertronix module. I also have the Jacobs elctronic ignition control box that I used for a while on my stock 1600 until it the engine quit (spun crank bearing) that might get used again.

Everything else is stock. I want to build a blow through turbo system that fits under the stock deck lid on my 65 Beetle. I am considering installing a budget FI system (Megasquirt) The main concern for this project is keeping the budget low so I want to use a turbo from a junkyard car if possible.

My question(s):
1. What would be a good turbo for a little extra low end torque?
2. What should I look for when shopping the junkyard for a turbo? (checks for serviceability)
3. Should I upgrade the oil pump to run the turbo?
4. What do I need to do to the carb (stock 34PICT3) if I don't change to FI?

Any other recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

thanks
Scott
[email protected]

[This message has been edited by bugsoup (edited 01-15-2002).]