EFI turbo? whats efi???

VRSICK · Post by **VRSICK** » Tue Mar 13, 2001 12:57 am

If efi is what I think it is, electronic fuel injection, then why is it that when I ask other tuners, they say that a carb turbo is easier to tune?
what benefit do you get from efi turbo kits?

does anyone even sell efi turbo kits??

thanx

Michael Ghia · Post by **Michael Ghia** » Tue Mar 13, 2001 1:49 am

The benefit with using a programmable Injection system (with distributorless ignition) is that you can dial in exactly how much advance the engine uses off boost aswell as on boost. Injection is always more acurate than carbs. It costs more but not much if you are building a big turbo motor, with carbs you have to either buy brand new Dellortos designed for blow-through or have a set modified. You'll end up paying a price not far off the price of a complete injection system.
CB Performance do an EFI turbo kit but they limit the amount of adjustability you have over the injection system.
There are other systems out there which work better. I'm sure others will let you know which they think is the best system to go with.
If you want to go with a carb and lots of HP then phone up Dave Kawell, he's the guru of pull-through carb turbo systems. His wife, Judy knows a lot more about turbos than I do.
Mike Ghia

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Modification is a form of Art.

Steve Arndt · Post by **Steve Arndt** » Tue Mar 13, 2001 8:26 am

Check the EFI section on my site, there are links to manufacturers and information.
http://www.arndtkafertuning.com

Veepster · Post by **Veepster** » Thu Mar 15, 2001 4:46 pm

disclaimer: this is not meant to offend ANYONE!!

what I have found is that anyone who says EFI is harder to tune than carbs is being ignorant....THEY may not know how to tune an EFI.....and by no means is it easy to learn all of the systems out there and their software......personally, I have spent a full day a few years ago at a Motec seminar...I have tuned many Electromotive systems on the dyno at Wilsons Machine Works, also a little messing with a few Haltech systems, I have an SDS system on my Veepster, I have a Air Sensors MAF based system on my 78 Cherokee.....and I have read everything I have ever seen on EFI......and I feel like I know absolutely NOTHING about tuning these beasts......OH and I have been working in the computer software industry for 9 years, so I have the computer knowledge....but damn! there is a ton to know!!!...so back to my point...what the heck was my point??? oh now I rememember!....carbs and EFI are just 2 different methods of attaining the Perfect AF ratio......carbs have only one method of input...vacuum!....EFI has a bunch depending on the system...but even the most basic have....throttle position, Air temp, engine temp, vacuum, and RPM......so are they harder to tune?....EFI has more parameters but once you understand them they are MUCH easier to tune,.......on my SDS I can change the injector pulse width every 250rpm's....so from 1000-6000 RPM I can have 24 different jet(pulse width) sizes...and I can change them in about 2 seconds...and I can even do it while I drive!...so you decide which is easier to tune.....ANYTHING a carb can do EFI can do better!!!

sorry for the rant!......so boys let's step up to the plate and struggle through the learning curve of EFI....it will be well worth it in the long run.....

Peace.............BartG

Jerry D · Post by **Jerry D** » Thu Mar 15, 2001 6:38 pm

I have a draw thru turbo system put together and tuned by Dave and Judy Kawell and I have driven a CB performance turbo EFI setup. The EFI system is much more driveable.
Dont get me wrong the Kawell system makes LOTS O PONYS but it runs real fat in midrange which I guess is a trademark of the Kawell's system.
I too will be converting to SDS EFI system in the very near future.

Post by **Tom Notch** » Thu Mar 15, 2001 7:50 pm

Hey, Bart! Use to see ya on the CLF and never knew you were into EFI stuff. Glad that we have a place that brings us techies together. Your Veepster is pretty cool and so was your buggy,

. I remember those dunes fro a million years ago, great stuff for the family. You can see some old shots of buggies on my site.

The learning curve was a bit steep when I first ventured into efi but now at least I am comfortable with what I do with it. It is the future of Hipo cars.

Welcome , too, Jerry. I know you don't like lap top tuning but that's OK.

The technology is still pretty much the same.

Tom H. aka

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Tom notch
Tom's Old VW Home

Veepster · Post by **Veepster** » Fri Mar 16, 2001 10:24 am

thanks Tom!....and nice site you have there..... Devils slide (sigh)..I was not that lucky to have ever seen it...but I have many years of memories(and rust) from Pismo.....

your EFI...how is your MAP signal? do you use it or do you just use the TPS.....aaahh the EFI earning curve!!.....my struggles have been learning how all the companies apply the same basic principles.....if you want to see the most NON user friendly...check out the electromotive system!......OH GEEZ!

Haltech wiring harness....not my favorite!(actually my least favorite!)......just an FYI....SDS will make the leads for your system longer at no extra charge.....I had them leave the connector off on my system and I installed them for a custom fit.....

my newest frustration in EFI.....I recently picked up an EFI system called AirSensors...it was made in 1986 and was the predessor to the ACCEL TBI system....Analog system about 1/2 the size of a shoebox with 4 "old school" circuit boards in it....the company is long since been out of business and all I have is a manual and a few tech sheets......Oh and this system runs a MAF and a spark pick-up and thats it.....I installed it on my full size Cherokee...... this has definitely been a learning experience, as I have no one to turn to for help......it is so old school I could laugh(or cry)....it is basically an electronic carburetor... i think I have about got it nailed but WOW what a learning experience...

well Tom I am so stoked to have found this site....didn't hear about it until a few days ago...someone referenced it off of the CLF site....I am sure we wil chat again.....

Peace.............BartG

Sharkey · Post by **Sharkey** » Mon Mar 26, 2001 11:38 pm

If efi is what I think it is, electronic fuel injection, then why is it that when I ask other tuners, they say that a carb turbo is easier to tune?

That's because most of these tuners are old school. Ask a Rice owner with aftermarket EFI which is easier to tune, carbs or an EMS (Engine Management System). They'll say EMS.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
what benefit do you get from efi turbo kits?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Drivability.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
does anyone even sell efi turbo kits??
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

CB Performance sells an EFI turbo kit. So does Turbo City. I don't have a lot of positive stuff to say about the former.

[This message has been edited by Sharkey (edited 03-27-2001).]