Thinking Subaru, think again!!

NextGen · Post by **NextGen** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 2:13 pm

Beside everything involving water- the radiator, hoses etc. Man are they expensive. My wife has a 2000 Forester at 73k miles 98's and up blow the drivers side head gasket, the job is $2500 and if it took a head it can be $5000. My wifes car started to smell of antifreeze and I could not find the leak. Went to Google put in Subaru anti freeze leak and up it popped. Major problem. They blow like clockwork 73k boom. Lucky I have the extended warrenty. So this is food for thought if you are thinking going Subaru in your bug. Also dual cams, what a timing belt nightmare.

joe

cidarfritz · Post by **cidarfritz** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 3:59 pm

sounds like there's a Subaru mechanic who either wants
1) your car damn cheap or 2)dig your wife.

Either way, next visit, carry arms!

sorry, you mean two-and-a-half-thousand bucks for a fu**in' head gasket?
And those suckers are talking about customer relationships?

I still can't believe it...

Plastermaster · Post by **Plastermaster** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 4:26 pm

same thing happened to a friends Toyota T100.

Do you know some of the BMWs have over 30 electric motors just to adjust the friggin seat? Yes that is seat in the singular. Keep it simple! If you are so anal that you need your seat that perfect, you'll never be happy anyway.

I read an article in the Wall St journal the other day that the German cars have the loest reliability rating now. It is attributed to complexity. The Japanese cars lean more to simplicity and have the highest reliability ratings.

Ron

73notch · Post by **73notch** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 4:55 pm

entire JDM engines are cheaper than that........
you could have gotten a 30k mile engine and put it in for half that.
all the blown head gaskets that i have encountered from friends cars, have cost about 500 bucks.

NextGen · Post by **NextGen** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 6:20 pm

It is not costing me anything but if you live in NY this is the price of that repair. The funny part is there was a notice I received a few months ago that said you have to add an additive to the coolant to prevent head gasket damage. Today the guy said did I add it. I said I never received the notice and I know enough about cars to know an additive is not going to stop a head gasket from blowing. Also when I bought the car the owers manual said nothing about an additive. I told him they are trying to cover their tracks but it is too late I know my rights under the warrenty.

Hay left head 73 k, sounds like T-1 and #3 cylinder, ha, I knew they stole the design from VW. I serves them right!!!

Subaru's are well designed cars but, two car engines I consider weird are Subaru and Saab.
Joe

Plastermaster · Post by **Plastermaster** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 7:04 pm

I got my notice about the coolant additive a few months ago. I think it had more to do with corrosion problems. I know old antifreez can be corrosive, but I doubt the additive is to compensate for old antifreeze. I believe the Subies all have a 100K drive train warrenty anyway. I had serious engine knock (detonation) for about 50K miles. I have documnented paper work from the service dept that I brought it in 4 times and they never could get the engine to knock. Finally I told them if this engine fails after 100K and it is due to detonation, the expired warrenty is not going to keep them out of court. They had the nerve to tell me that if they can't find the problem they are not liable. I called theit bluff and said "Its up to you guys, I've done my part" So they contacted Subaru to see what they should do and it turned out there was a chip upgrade for the EMS that was recomended. It pretty well took care of it but not completely. I figure I still got'em if a failure occurs. BTW The forums are full of Knocking Subies. LOL The service managers can be so lame it is amazing. These guys know enough to do what is right. I am sure they have more mechanical knowledge than I do, but I go in there and BS them that I build race engines and throw a few mechanical terms at them and then they wake up. NO integrety!

Ron

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 7:33 pm

Actually, that reliability story has a lot more to it. The German cars in general are actually less complex than the Japanese cars. The Jap cars have way more gadgets. The statistics you are reading about are based soley on dealer return visits. Those would be the JD power stats. they have little to say about wether the visit was serious mechanical or simply something trivial....like the seat motors. These devices and problems are not fully prevalent in German cars...except where they are chasing the luxury /convenience market. In that instance...all manufactureres have the exact same problems. In the device laden luxury vehicle maket, the cadillac SUV monsters, the hummers (#1 worst reliability world-wide....jd powers...most return vists to dealer in first 90 days....JD powers)....and the Japanese sporst models (lexus/infity top o line flagships and 2 seater luxury gadget cruizers are just as bad)....also have problems. Customer satisfaction surveys are something else. Some of them show high satidfaction though "sniggling" visits need to be made to the dealer (BMW, Audi, Benz, Volvo)....for small junk. They run strong and handle well.
But...you are correct...that after starting the luxury gadget craze in the mid 90's....the Japanese...at least to my observation....are starting to stem the tide of crap they put in their cars. They spend more money now on leather and horsepower....and make thecars even cheaper by droppingsome of the gadgets. Again...they are not technically ahead...they are ahead in marketing. They realize that too many Americans (the largest world market for new cars)....are too stupid and fat to get off the couch....so they do all of the shopping from the internet and pay total belief to ratings of trips to the dealers....by people like JD powers. Real soon...wether its realy warranted or not, the Japanese compaies will have this huge image of the utmost in reliability. Thei insurance rates will fall...and the lard assed virtual test drivers will flock to them. A total coup by a clever marketing position ....once again. Ray

NextGen · Post by **NextGen** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 8:23 pm

What makes me laugh is the price of cars. What makes a $17,000 Toyota different from a $60,000 Lexus?? The bent metal that makes the two bodies is the same stuff just a different shape. The engines are made of the same stuff, metal. Maybe a extra cylinder or two,ha. Seriously, for a factory to make a car, it must cost maybe $4000. In parts. That is the basic of a $60,000 Lexus or a $17,000 Toyota. Then they throw in the gizmos and leather. But you can put the same stuff in the Toyota. Major Brain washing. What makes a Crossfire different then a any other 8 cylinder car, -- the body. The way they bend the $.25 cents per pound steel. Make it look different and you get twice the money. If you bend a Buick enough you can get two Crossfires for a 1/4 the price. It is done with mirror and we fall for it all the time. The whole SUV thing just blows me away. Is 90% of the U.S on drugs. They are UGLY, Gas eating monsters, ride like crap, flip, not fun to drive. Yetd they will give you every excuse to own one. Try the guy next door has one, you want bigger. The big four will make monsters and you can be sure their buddies the oil companies will never let us run out of gas as long as we pay for it. Keep in mind in Europe they drive small cars and pay $8 per gallon but get 60 mpg. We drive monster that lucky get 20mpg and Pay $2.25 per gallon so it winds up we all pay the same to go from point a to b. and the gas companies get the same profit. I think the reason gas is more expensive in Europe is because people have small cars. The profit stays the same.

CLH · Post by **CLH** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 10:25 pm

I think most of the cost of euro fuel is in the gov't taxes, the gov gets most of the money, not the oil companies. You've got to pay for 'free' healthcare and 2 month paid vacations somehow!

Chris Percival · Post by **Chris Percival** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 1:00 am

The actual aim, so they say, is to get people out of their cars, and on to public transport. If only they ploughed the fuel revenue back in to public transport!

cidarfritz · Post by **cidarfritz** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 1:07 am

CLH wrote:I think most of the cost of euro fuel is in the gov't taxes, the gov gets most of the money, not the oil companies. You've got to pay for 'free' healthcare and 2 month paid vacations somehow!

That's what we have pay on ourselves, in addition to tax!

But has any country other than Germany
ever taken over a completely ruined other country?

Can you imagine US taxes after George W. and Condi have a chance to
take the Soviet Union, then going there and promising the people to get "blooming countries"
like German chancellor Helmut Kohl and his secretary of state Hans Dietrich Genscher did in 1989?
Can you imagine the taxes you had to pay in that case?

NextGen wrote: If you bend a Buick enough you can get two Crossfires for a 1/4 the price.

A Crossfire is Mercedes SLK Mk1 in a partydress, manufactured by Karmann, Osnabrück, Germany.
Remember that company for manufacturing all VW convertibles and Coupés?

NextGen wrote: Hay left head 73 k, sounds like T-1 and #3 cylinder, ha, I knew they (Subaru) stole the design from VW. I serves them right!!!
Subaru's are well designed cars but, two car engines I consider weird are Subaru and Saab.
Joe

If I remember that right, the 1959 Borgward Arabella engine and the 1968 Subaru were identical twins.
Would you please correct me if that is wrong, thank you.
Borgward? Bremen, Germany based company killed 1961 by corrupt politicians for BMW's (!) sake.

engine, Wasserboxer(!?!), 1959

Lloyd Arabella, later named Borgward Arabella

greetings from a cold German autumn morning
Stephan

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 9:35 am

Actually the differences for instance in Toyota and Lexus...are significant ...in the significant parts. Lots of subtle details...like nitrided valve stems, different amount spent on engine balance, combustion chamber design, suspension valving.....it makes a huge difference in performance and drivability....but

you are right to be "confused". All of that listed above...are simply refinements of existing castings and manufactured parts and chassis. There is nothing in the differences in actual parts between Toyota and Lexus...to be worth the difference in price. The real difference is in the night and day "feel" between the two...which is just tuning of the same parts. So...to the average Lexus owner...95% of which that I have personally met...would not know a piston from their penis.....the vast "feel" difference MUST equate to more money...it has too!...and the commercials say it does!... I mean DAMn...how many Toyotas can you roll a ball bearing down the rain gutter of for what little they cost...or how many Toyotas have their undersides windtunnel tested....doooood thats where the money was invested in Lexus don't you know?

heeheeheeheeheehee...snort. Most people in this country don't deserve to drive. We need a real licensing program to seperate the sheep from ....the even dumber sheep. Ray

dstar · Post by **dstar** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 9:50 am

raygreenwood wrote:----------We need a real licensing program to seperate the sheep from ....
the even dumber sheep. Ray

BUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHA!

Good one Ray, unfortunately this applies to the Hype during
ELECTION yr also!

Americans a READY to fall for ANYTHING that is HYPED on the
televison set...

I saw a quick ten second spot on Spike last night:

"Collect more BLING"

I almost threw up!

We are screwed....America has no future.

Don

Dave_Darling · Post by **Dave_Darling** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:33 am

NextGen wrote:What makes me laugh is the price of cars. What makes a $17,000 Toyota different from a $60,000 Lexus?? The bent metal that makes the two bodies is the same stuff just a different shape. The engines are made of the same stuff, metal. Maybe a extra cylinder or two,ha. ... The whole SUV thing just blows me away. Is 90% of the U.S on drugs. They are UGLY, Gas eating monsters, ride like crap, flip, not fun to drive. Yetd they will give you every excuse to own one. Try the guy next door has one, you want bigger.

What's the difference between a Cadillac Escalade and a 67 Bug, anyway? They're both made out of metal, just different shapes. The engines work the same way, just with a few (OK, four) cylinders more. And some water.

Look at things from far enough, squint enough, and everything is all the same... It's the differences that really matter.

Oh, and while you're partly wrong about the Yota versus the Lexus, you're partly right. The profit margins on the luxo-barge are much higher than on the commute-mobile. That's why so many automakers churn them out. And the margins are even higher on the luxo-SUVs; they take a design they've had since the 70s (big utility pickup truck), add a roof over the bed, cram in about $5000 worth of leather and gadgets--and suddenly they can charge $35000 more than they could for the pickup! Whee, big profits are fun! (So is not having to meet the current auto emissions or safety regulations.)

--DD

NextGen · Post by **NextGen** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 11:17 am

Stephan and DD. As for the Sube being German, don't forget the NSU Wankle that is in the Mazda's.

DD, where are we headed, I saw a show on the Port of Long Beach Calif.

China inports 36 billion per year into that port, toys, TV's, clothing etc.

We export 3 billion to China and it is only raw material, our waste paper, metal, cotton, etc. Our jobs go there to make the items they import to us from our raw materials.. Yes DD where are we headed. It was said China has a big market and will make a killing over there. Yea, but they didn't say the American companies that are going to make the killings are going to be over there doing it with China's labor.
Joe