I've been looking and doing research on a 1972 Superbeetle Mullholland kit that I've been interested in.
I'm curious about engines.. I've been looking at aircooltechnology.net type 4 conversions. They look good. All new parts but the engine is all taped out power wise.. and their expensive. What about Subie engines? or Rotory They woudn't be new but they may or may not be a little cheaper but they would be stock power.
What's the price difference giving thse cars more power, vs a MK2 VR6 (I've got one of those, I'd be parting out for this car) Vs Eclipse/Talon/Laser or mustang 5.0
I think these cars with the rear engined rear wheel drive, light weight, and independent suspension with a lil work and wide tires can be handling monsters!
Type 4 vs Subie vs Rotory? Bang for buck reliable power?
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Mysticle31
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MNAirHead
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rotary-z
What kind of pwer do you want?
a type 4 typically has great low end torque but is limited whn you want to rev it up. the big advantage here is that you don't need to design a coolent system.
subys make better power on he higher end than a t4 but parts are expensive and parts availability is low. I would go turbo with the suby because you are really limited staying with na when it comes to power. I am not too experianced with the suby engines, so I will let those guys chime in and help you out.
Rotaries are nice and easy on trannys because they down have that much torque down low in the R's. But they make up for it with power up high. People say that most of your driving is at 3000rpm or lower around town. This is true with most engines, but with a rotary it feels very natural to rev it much higher than a vw engine. I used to rev mine over 8500rpm on a daily basis and not worry about anything. Power potnetial is great where a 13b turbo engine, you can get 500hp on pump gas on a stock block fairly reliably, you can also drive this engine on the street with no problems. All it takes is a big turbo such as an HKS T51R KIA, 1600/850cc injectors, computer, intercooler, and some good tuning. 400hp is possible with the stock twin turbos from 93-96 rx7. just bigger injectors, computer, and tuning. You can make 300hp naturally aspirated with a fully built and ported engine. So as you can see there is huge amounts of power potential, and rotaries are relitively easy on trannies.
for more info, check out http://www.rx7club.com
All engines are pretty reliable if maintained correctly, I would say that the subaru will take the least amount of maintenance, followed by the rotary (only maintenance is putting a quart of oil in every 1500 miles and changing the oil often) . The type 4 will need the most maintenance, but its all up to you.
a type 4 typically has great low end torque but is limited whn you want to rev it up. the big advantage here is that you don't need to design a coolent system.
subys make better power on he higher end than a t4 but parts are expensive and parts availability is low. I would go turbo with the suby because you are really limited staying with na when it comes to power. I am not too experianced with the suby engines, so I will let those guys chime in and help you out.
Rotaries are nice and easy on trannys because they down have that much torque down low in the R's. But they make up for it with power up high. People say that most of your driving is at 3000rpm or lower around town. This is true with most engines, but with a rotary it feels very natural to rev it much higher than a vw engine. I used to rev mine over 8500rpm on a daily basis and not worry about anything. Power potnetial is great where a 13b turbo engine, you can get 500hp on pump gas on a stock block fairly reliably, you can also drive this engine on the street with no problems. All it takes is a big turbo such as an HKS T51R KIA, 1600/850cc injectors, computer, intercooler, and some good tuning. 400hp is possible with the stock twin turbos from 93-96 rx7. just bigger injectors, computer, and tuning. You can make 300hp naturally aspirated with a fully built and ported engine. So as you can see there is huge amounts of power potential, and rotaries are relitively easy on trannies.
for more info, check out http://www.rx7club.com
All engines are pretty reliable if maintained correctly, I would say that the subaru will take the least amount of maintenance, followed by the rotary (only maintenance is putting a quart of oil in every 1500 miles and changing the oil often) . The type 4 will need the most maintenance, but its all up to you.
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Piledriver
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Don't forget to consider a wasser, no adapter required, T4 flywheel attachment, ~140HP from stock motor possible(1.4 rockers, chip,exhaust) 97x80 doable w/o block or head machining.
Folks have reported 400HP out of turbo'd/intercooled but internally stock motors. YMMV.
The heads need most of the work for a big motor, the stockers can't be made high revving without serious work.
You have several places to put the radiator on those Mulholland kits IIRC.
Folks have reported 400HP out of turbo'd/intercooled but internally stock motors. YMMV.
The heads need most of the work for a big motor, the stockers can't be made high revving without serious work.
You have several places to put the radiator on those Mulholland kits IIRC.
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
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MASSIVE TYPE IV
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metropoj
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Wasser converions are also not that straight forward. If you're not into doing a lot of planning, fabricating, relocating things like rad, lines, heater core, etc, then you better think twice. Wasser is good but you are comparing an apple and orange when talking that Aircool is $$ without considering the following.
Air cooled may be more $$ up front, but when you decide on a Wasser, check out your parts costs, Subie belts and tensioners will cost you $$$, so I canned the Subie needs.
Just do your homework, exh, heat, rad, adapter plates, lines are all custom stuff or at least a mixed breed from all over.
Air cooled may be more $$ up front, but when you decide on a Wasser, check out your parts costs, Subie belts and tensioners will cost you $$$, so I canned the Subie needs.
Just do your homework, exh, heat, rad, adapter plates, lines are all custom stuff or at least a mixed breed from all over.
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Piledriver
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Correct, but we were comparing suby/rotary/T4/whatever.
Anything water cooled would be much work, likely all about the same.
At least a wasser skips the need for a custom clutch/flywheel//engine adaptor, and it just fits perfectly, as it essentially IS a T1, evolved.
I also love T4s, I put one in my sons super, own a 914, and didn't drive or really work on anything else (just Bays)for 15 years untill a 88 vanagon fell in my lap.
Anything water cooled would be much work, likely all about the same.
At least a wasser skips the need for a custom clutch/flywheel//engine adaptor, and it just fits perfectly, as it essentially IS a T1, evolved.
I also love T4s, I put one in my sons super, own a 914, and didn't drive or really work on anything else (just Bays)for 15 years untill a 88 vanagon fell in my lap.
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
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Mysticle31
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metropoj
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Pildriver, I don't understand ... I was sure that all Wassers DO need custom clutch, flywheels, adapters, etc ..... probably a type-o 
I just wanted to share that unthough of costs can really derail a Wasser project. Whether Subie / Rotary / whatever, in comparison to a good 'ol TIV .....
As for T V's, that could be true.
But, if there is doubt that a TIV will not give you the power, or if it does, cost you the money you don't feel is worth it, I don't see the point ......
I just wanted to share that unthough of costs can really derail a Wasser project. Whether Subie / Rotary / whatever, in comparison to a good 'ol TIV .....
As for T V's, that could be true.
But, if there is doubt that a TIV will not give you the power, or if it does, cost you the money you don't feel is worth it, I don't see the point ......
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miller
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More about rotarys. I guess below 4000rpm they are fairly inefficent and will run worse, worse mpg, and oil problems. But if you rev the hell out of them they like it and will run longer and harder.
Subie would be a great choice. With the subie engines weighing about the same as a vw counterpart. THey make about 160hp stock in the n/a form and 230hp turbo. Pick either engine and youll have a fast bug. 200hp should be fast enough for most good handling cars.
Subie would be a great choice. With the subie engines weighing about the same as a vw counterpart. THey make about 160hp stock in the n/a form and 230hp turbo. Pick either engine and youll have a fast bug. 200hp should be fast enough for most good handling cars.