clutch cross shaft upgrade.

regis101 · Post by **regis101** » Sun Jan 04, 2004 5:22 pm

Greetings. We have a 67 bus. Am I correct to think that the clutch, pressure plate and throw out bearing are the same from 70 and down? Does this mean that the 71 and up clutch assembly won't work with the early T.O bearing? If memory serves, there is an upgrade kit to enable the 67 trans to be able to use the 71 and up components ? The early clutch is a three finger job and the 71 and later is a diaphram style? And each must use the proper T.O. bearing? I may be answering my own questions but need confirmation. One question is wether or not the upgrade is needed. Secondly, who makes and sell the upgrade kit. My reason for the need of info is that when I have the engine built in the near future, I will have the clutch and P.P. balanced with the crank assembly. Just want to know the best deal and what to buy. Thanks, Regis

Jeff T · Post by **Jeff T** » Sun Jan 04, 2004 6:04 pm

The early style of clutch is 180mm.The newer style is 200mm.I am not sure about the 67 as that was the changeover year to 12 volt.If you want to upgrade to the newer clutch,just make sure the T/O bearing matches the P/P.Old style T/o to old style PP.New style T/O to new style PP. If you are interested I have a clutch and pressure plate for sale.200mm.Has mayby 10 miles on it. JT

JohnK · Post by **JohnK** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 6:08 pm

70 down T1 I believe since 67 is the last year for the T1 transmission.
I use the old style pressure plate and throwout. You can convert the transmission to the later style by getting a guide kit to go over the mainshaft and a later cross shaft I think. Then you could use the 71 and up T1 PP/disc/throwout.

regis101 · Post by **regis101** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 7:57 pm

Yeah, I'm with ya. Looking for who sells the upgrade kit.

VGM · Post by **VGM** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 10:45 pm

Try Aircooled.net.John sold me one not long ago-very slick unit.Lists for $28!

regis101 · Post by **regis101** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 7:42 pm

I checked out AC.net's site . So how do you like that the adapter collar pushes into the trans? Does it have some sort of flange that enables you to use a set screw like they recommend? Then, what about the cross shaft. Can I still use the 67's. Or does this need to be from a later model as well? What was your application. I could e-mail AC.net I suppose. Thanks

VGM · Post by **VGM** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 10:15 pm

I think it was '71 when VW changed to the sleave setup.It does have a flange and you will need to use a late model cross shaft.

Post by **Marc** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 9:47 am

Jeff T wrote:The early style of clutch is 180mm.The newer style is 200mm...

No, no, no! There are three styles (6V gasket, 6V O-ring, and 12V O-ring) of both 180mm and 200mm clutch flywheels. 180s were used on 1200 and 1300cc engines, 200s on larger; the change from gasket to O-ring came in mid`66, and all US-market cars were 12V with 1500cc and larger engines starting in `67 but in other markets 6V lived on, as did the smaller engine availability.

Regis:
Until 1970, the standard clutch covers used coil springs; the later diaphragm-spring type can be made with 3 operating levers like the coil units had (typical of Fichtel & Sachs) or they can be "multifinger" with the diaphragm itself extending inward to the release bearing area (LUK, Daiken, etc.). Most all "early-TOB" covers with the thrust ring in the center can be used with a late TOB by simply removing the ring, whether they are coil- or diaphragm-spring - but some of the multifinger type still have insufficient clearance to fit over the late guide sleeve even with the ring removed.
Kennedy et al sell only the early, diaphragm, 3-lever cover; that style is 100% convertible to work in a late application. The "genuine" late covers' levers have a slightly different contour at the end, but in practice the early levers work fine against a late TOB.

I prefer the late cross-shaft & TOB setup, but the early stuff works fine if it's in good condition. Most problems with it come from wear where the ears of the TOB cradle in the levers of the cross-shaft - the retaining clips can't exert enough tension to keep the TOB in place and it jumps out of position. If the cross-shaft cradles are in good condition, there's no problem...and there exist HD retaining clips that have a full-circle spring design with more tension than the OEM horseshoe-shaped ones.

Personally I don't think you need to worry about converting, but if you do you'll need the 1971/early`72 Type I cross-shaft (113 141 701E) and some type of aftermarket guide tube. Carter's is another source for those parts.

As far as which cover to buy & balance right now, the early 3-finger diaphragm unit (311 141 031E) will work for you regardless of what you decide on the cross-shaft/TOB.

JohnK · Post by **JohnK** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:07 pm

I was thinking he was converting to T4 (from earlier posts?) as well in which case he needs to either get the nosepiece for the pressure plate or do the conversion thing.
I ran the $10 nosepiece while I had the 914 engine in my 67 and it worked fine, but people say it is shakier than the conversion. Probably for the reasons Marc mentioned above with the extra pressure of the late bus clutch. Kennedy does make the T4-T1 pressure plate that drops right in I think if you have the money.

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 11:14 pm

I'm not fond of the stock early system at all, those little clips fail too often for me.

The 71 ONLY cross shaft can be used in an early tranny, as well as the sleeve that John carries- I use it too. Then just use the 165B release bearing and a late style multifinger plate WITHOUT a collar and you are set, as long as you have a 200mm clutch.

regis101 · Post by **regis101** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 11:20 pm

Interseting reading. Thanks for the replies. I'm glad you chimed in , Marc. As always, a wealth of info. And JohnK is not far from the mark. To summarize is as follows. I have been obtaining info about powerplants for a daily driver fair weather 67 bus. T-4 is possible 'cause I have a 2.0 core. I entertained this idea with some passion. Also thought about just building up a nice T-1. Maybe even a 1915 and use a big fat Mesa cooler. Either engine type would be built for low rpm. The deciding factor is cost, driveability, easiness on the existing parts, and labor intensiveness to complete the project. I did read a good quote that said to buy the clutch that fits the trans and not the engine. In either case, I was thinking that a clutch release bearing upgrade would not hurt. It seems that the early style has its problems with the clips. But as mentioned, I have noticed that the clips using a full circle appear to be stronger than the horseshoe type. The cost of the upgrade is inexpensive and the cost of the clutch assembly for the early or late are about the same. I am only trying to maximize my efforts. In conclusion, It will most likly end up that the 67 gets a T-1 ans the 2.0 will be built as a spare for our 78 Westy. I feel more at ease about the reliability of the early style having read the previous postings. Thanks again

regis101 · Post by **regis101** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 11:26 pm

MassIVe beat my posting. Thanks for your input. I traced the part numbers from the various catalogs that I have. The *** E shaft is the one needed, and 165B T.O. There seems to be bushing kits also for the operating lever side of the case/bellhousing and that's cool. A question is, Is there a bushing in the right side?