Cooling
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Bob Ingman
- Posts: 2869
- Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2001 12:01 am
Cooling
What is commonly used for cooling as far as shroud/tins/oil cooler/and alternator combinations. Is this engine usually uprighted of does it remain flat?Good luck. Bob Ingman
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Type 5 Joe
- Posts: 388
- Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2003 12:01 am
Cooling
Hi Bob,
Some have used the Porsche type aftermarket stuff, not my 1st choice..
Stock Doghouse Type I tin, generator, or alternator.
I run the stock thermostat and flaps in the shroud...
No D.T.M's here, I think that means DON'T TAKE my MONEY.
- Joe
[This message has been edited by Type 5 Joe (edited 01-18-2003).]
Some have used the Porsche type aftermarket stuff, not my 1st choice..
Stock Doghouse Type I tin, generator, or alternator.
I run the stock thermostat and flaps in the shroud...
No D.T.M's here, I think that means DON'T TAKE my MONEY.
- Joe
[This message has been edited by Type 5 Joe (edited 01-18-2003).]
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Type 5 Joe
- Posts: 388
- Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2003 12:01 am
Cooling
You *might* be able to use Type III tin and fan ect...
I had a couple of Inquirees about this from Notchback / fastback people.
I might look into this as the case is similar to a Type III
- Joe
I had a couple of Inquirees about this from Notchback / fastback people.
I might look into this as the case is similar to a Type III
- Joe
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Bob Ingman
- Posts: 2869
- Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2001 12:01 am
Cooling
Where is the dip stick located?
So you`re saying that because T-1 heads are used that the same cylinder tins and fan shroud can be used as it allows all that to match up? What about the oil cooler location? T-1 Dog house cooler? DTM just might mean "Do`nt Tell Mom". Good luck. Bob Ingman
[This message has been edited by Bob Ingman (edited 01-19-2003).]
So you`re saying that because T-1 heads are used that the same cylinder tins and fan shroud can be used as it allows all that to match up? What about the oil cooler location? T-1 Dog house cooler? DTM just might mean "Do`nt Tell Mom". Good luck. Bob Ingman
[This message has been edited by Bob Ingman (edited 01-19-2003).]
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Type 5 Joe
- Posts: 388
- Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2003 12:01 am
Cooling
The dipstick is located in the Type I position.
A tube and dipstick must be made up, a "no brainer".
Almost everthing on these motors requires a custom mod, a little fabrication, ect...
This is actually what make them atractive to me, a little challenge here and there, not a boring project.
The oil cooler mount is another modified piece, I'm going to be selling these soon, but not too hard for someone to make himself.
The oil lines can be plumbed in from a "sandwich plate" under the oil filter.
-Or tap into the case for the feed / return, like a full flow system.
The stock German tin can be used with a little trimming, fitting, ect...
The case is a little taller end about 1" wider.
- Joe
A tube and dipstick must be made up, a "no brainer".
Almost everthing on these motors requires a custom mod, a little fabrication, ect...
This is actually what make them atractive to me, a little challenge here and there, not a boring project.
The oil cooler mount is another modified piece, I'm going to be selling these soon, but not too hard for someone to make himself.
The oil lines can be plumbed in from a "sandwich plate" under the oil filter.
-Or tap into the case for the feed / return, like a full flow system.
The stock German tin can be used with a little trimming, fitting, ect...
The case is a little taller end about 1" wider.
- Joe
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Type 5 Joe
- Posts: 388
- Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2003 12:01 am
Cooling
I charge about what it costs for a high quality upright fan shroud to modify the case.
This includes Jet- Spray wash, drill and tap all oil galleys, mill water jackets, re-locate 8 mm studs.
You can use a Doghouse with the thermostat and internal flaps to aim the cooling air at the heads (where its needed). This also increases the velocity of the air.
It's hard to argue with German Engineering.
The other components are mostly Type I aftermarket and stock.
The other thing that need attention are:
- The cylinders need to be turned in a lathe to esablish deck height.
This is actually a very cool thing as this opens the door to running a large variety of Stroke / Rod lengths without buying expensive long cylinders / paying to have these machined / using a bunch of shims.
The direction you want to go with oil cooling.
Dipstick tube / Dipstick.
Options:
Six case hardened Bullet nosed Shuffle Pins.
Sleeve lifter Bores down to Type I size W / 7075 Alum slugs(needed for aggresive cams with steep ramps)
The choice of going Type 5 will fall somewhere in-between the cost of a Type IV and a High Quality Type I (hotrod).
Of course building a bigger motor takes bigger $$$.
- Joe
This includes Jet- Spray wash, drill and tap all oil galleys, mill water jackets, re-locate 8 mm studs.
You can use a Doghouse with the thermostat and internal flaps to aim the cooling air at the heads (where its needed). This also increases the velocity of the air.
It's hard to argue with German Engineering.
The other components are mostly Type I aftermarket and stock.
The other thing that need attention are:
- The cylinders need to be turned in a lathe to esablish deck height.
This is actually a very cool thing as this opens the door to running a large variety of Stroke / Rod lengths without buying expensive long cylinders / paying to have these machined / using a bunch of shims.
The direction you want to go with oil cooling.
Dipstick tube / Dipstick.
Options:
Six case hardened Bullet nosed Shuffle Pins.
Sleeve lifter Bores down to Type I size W / 7075 Alum slugs(needed for aggresive cams with steep ramps)
The choice of going Type 5 will fall somewhere in-between the cost of a Type IV and a High Quality Type I (hotrod).
Of course building a bigger motor takes bigger $$$.
- Joe
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Pillow
- Posts: 2940
- Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2001 1:01 am
Cooling
>so it sounds like you could fit one of them in a bug a lot cheeper than a T4<
This is the cheapest way into a 2.1 I have seen, period. T1 or T4.
Depending on the machine services needed from Joe it gets down right scary cheap! But if you go LARGE then it gets expensive just like any other full custom engine.
Just think with a good core 2.1 you automatically get a stroker crank and good case, machine the case and you are ready to go like normal. New lifeter, bearings, T1 heads, gaskets, and custom 94Bs from Joe and you are in business. End of story. Use T1 tinware that needs small clearancing here and there and go.
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Adrian Pillow
'66 VW Westfalia
'79 Porsche 911 SC - FS
VolkSport Kafer Gruppe
This is the cheapest way into a 2.1 I have seen, period. T1 or T4.
Depending on the machine services needed from Joe it gets down right scary cheap! But if you go LARGE then it gets expensive just like any other full custom engine.
Just think with a good core 2.1 you automatically get a stroker crank and good case, machine the case and you are ready to go like normal. New lifeter, bearings, T1 heads, gaskets, and custom 94Bs from Joe and you are in business. End of story. Use T1 tinware that needs small clearancing here and there and go.
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Adrian Pillow
'66 VW Westfalia
'79 Porsche 911 SC - FS
VolkSport Kafer Gruppe
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Type 5 Joe
- Posts: 388
- Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2003 12:01 am
Cooling
The other benefit is the power characteristics of a Type I.
While the Type IV has Big-Block style torque....
The ones I've driven have a limmited powerband / R.P.M. Range... Alot of Grunt
The Type I style Powerband can be tuned for low-end / mid-range with extremely high high RPM Potential. Stroker crank, medium ports, medium cam, ect.. Alot of Grunt too...
- Or for Mid / Top End Power - Big valves, big cams, big ports, ect... Wild R.P.M. Potential... For alot less $$$$.
- Joe
While the Type IV has Big-Block style torque....
The ones I've driven have a limmited powerband / R.P.M. Range... Alot of Grunt
The Type I style Powerband can be tuned for low-end / mid-range with extremely high high RPM Potential. Stroker crank, medium ports, medium cam, ect.. Alot of Grunt too...
- Or for Mid / Top End Power - Big valves, big cams, big ports, ect... Wild R.P.M. Potential... For alot less $$$$.
- Joe
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krems
- Posts: 211
- Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2005 4:10 pm
Re: Cooling
Pillow wrote:>so it sounds like you could fit one of them in a bug a lot cheeper than a T4<
This is the cheapest way into a 2.1 I have seen, period. T1 or T4.
Depending on the machine services needed from Joe it gets down right scary cheap! But if you go LARGE then it gets expensive just like any other full custom engine.
Just think with a good core 2.1 you automatically get a stroker crank and good case, machine the case and you are ready to go like normal. New lifeter, bearings, T1 heads, gaskets, and custom 94Bs from Joe and you are in business. End of story. Use T1 tinware that needs small clearancing here and there and go.
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Adrian Pillow
'66 VW Westfalia
'79 Porsche 911 SC - FS
VolkSport Kafer Gruppe
ohhhh...so you CAN just use the regular WBX internals with no sweat?
*phew*
everyone was talking about going bigger....i personally would just want to have an oxyboxer in my ride first....before i think of/can afford upgrading..
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pocketrocket
- Posts: 389
- Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 12:01 am
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pocketrocket
- Posts: 389
- Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 12:01 am
Krems, Doing the head stud inserts RIGHT with 10mm inserts is the biggest cost. Also I have seen a few blocks come into the shop that the customer has removed the water jackets, almost all have made mistakes. If you want me to do a block for you I will show how to remove the jackets with out making those mistakes, but I would rather do it myself. We are working now on making (CNC) a oil cooler tower that bolts to the side of the block, so you can run the doghouse oil cooler set up. If you use a Berg relief oil pump cover you can still maintain the stock oil filter on the side of the block. Have you seen the July 05 Hot VWs magazine on the Wasserboxer-to-Air Modification Page 80. Hope I can help you with your conversion. Rocky
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krems
- Posts: 211
- Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2005 4:10 pm
i see, i've requested the article to be scanned in as the hot vw site is of little help.
and considering im in jamaica, sending a core to you may not prove very cost effective...to say the least
in any case, thanks for the info, i have less to worry about with the oil cooler...what about the P&B's... do i have to use 94's? or can the stock wbx ones work? or what?
and considering im in jamaica, sending a core to you may not prove very cost effective...to say the least
in any case, thanks for the info, i have less to worry about with the oil cooler...what about the P&B's... do i have to use 94's? or can the stock wbx ones work? or what?
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pocketrocket
- Posts: 389
- Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 12:01 am
Krems, The p&cs from the boxer won't work or will the heads. You must find a machine shop that can machine your block for the bug head stud pattern. I only do the 10mm stud inserts. Machining of the cylinders & spacers to aline the barrels. Doing the block takes precision set up & machining. I have done blocks that have come from all over the world. Yes freight costs are high. If it was easy everyone would be able to do it. Mostly it takes a complete machine shop and a staff that knows what whey are doing. Rocky