CSI vs dual Dells

Martice · Post by **Martice** » Thu May 23, 2002 7:03 am

Is there a big performance difference?(36Dells vs CSI)
What about fuel mileage?
Volvo 244 CSI on a 70Hp 2L type4 has anyone done that?
What about fuel mileage loss when you have let's say a Volvo 244 CSI turbocharged on a stock 2L type4?
I am not sure yet if I should go for the 36Dells(I already have),a CSI sys, or turbocharged CSI...And I need to make up my mind fast so I could start working!
Thanks!

Martin

Searoy · Post by **Searoy** » Thu May 23, 2002 7:41 am

Is there a big performance difference?(36Dells vs CSI)

yes.

What about fuel mileage?

cis should be better, tuned properly.

Volvo 244 CSI on a 70Hp 2L type4 has anyone done that?

Yes, Scott Fraser in a 60 (or 61) crew cab.

What about fuel mileage loss when you have let's say a Volvo 244 CSI turbocharged on a stock 2L type4?

I'm not sure folks who run turbos are all that concerned with measuring milage.

I am not sure yet if I should go for the 36Dells(I already have),a CSI sys, or turbocharged CSI...And I need to make up my mind fast so I could start working!

Use your dells first. Get the thing running and enjoy it. Then later install the CIS, once you do a little more homework on how it all works. RB.com sells good books dedicated to CIS. Once that's all running, install the turbo. That's what I'm doing. That's what Evil Ed did. Other's I'm sure have followed this step-by-step path as well.

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*** Teach a Man to Fish ***
Searoy

"I tend to lean toward a tighter gap and a
looser skirt....a little slap never hurt." -- Joe of the West

Martice · Post by **Martice** » Thu May 23, 2002 2:12 pm

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Searoy:
Is there a big performance difference?(36Dells vs CSI)

yes.

So the 36Dells give more power or the CSI?

OK
I am building a SS exhaust sys right now anyway so to biuld it for turbo will not be a BIG difference, in order to install the Dells I'll have to build the intake manifolds and linkage too (It's not hard and I am not willing to pay 200$+ for them)so...
If I'll decide to go for turbo or CSi I wount do it all alone,I'll have some professional help(from a friend) if I'll need it.
So what do you think? is it so hard to install the CSI? why go for the Dells?

Thanks Searoy!

Martin

ray greenwood · Post by **ray greenwood** » Fri May 24, 2002 5:36 am

Actually, almost any properly tuned injection will beat the Dells...no insult at all to the carbs. There will need to be a few minor changes to the engine itself to optimally run injection...if more HP is what you want. Installing injection isn'y quite as simple as ...well...swapping carbs, but it has huge advantages. I agree with searoy, either stay with the dells until you figure out what you need, or if you just have to have injection, jump to one of the stock factory systems that will start you at a known point and tune from there. Ray

Martice · Post by **Martice** » Fri May 24, 2002 12:02 pm

So you think I should go for a stock type-4 FI or a Volvo or Saab FI?
I was thinking to install a FI that I'll be able to turbocharge later.

BTW could someone estimate the HP of a 2L hydro bus engine(stock internals) with a CSI(Volvo for ex.) with K&N and a 4>1 SS header with a low restriction turbo dsgn. muffler?Maybe I'll could also rise the CR to 8:1...
Thank you!

Martin

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by ray greenwood:
Actually, almost any properly tuned injection will beat the Dells...no insult at all to the carbs. There will need to be a few minor changes to the engine itself to optimally run injection...if more HP is what you want. Installing injection isn'y quite as simple as ...well...swapping carbs, but it has huge advantages. I agree with searoy, either stay with the dells until you figure out what you need, or if you just have to have injection, jump to one of the stock factory systems that will start you at a known point and tune from there. Ray<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ray greenwood · Post by **ray greenwood** » Fri May 24, 2002 5:27 pm

I personnally love D-jet...and L-jet, But I also love K-jet but have never personally used it on a type 4. But it should work great when tuned out. Look around the posts for evil ed. He specializes in CIS conversions. I specialize in CIS as well, but have never done tuning on any of it outside of the cars it came on. The SAAB system I can personnalyy vouch for as simple, has excellent enrichment features..including the adjustable fuel distributor for each injector...and several choices through the years of enrichment means from simple impulse, frequency valve and lambda box..to fifth injector..and sometimes more than one system at once. Also CIS can be turbo'd a lot easier than D-jet. Ray

Martice · Post by **Martice** » Sat May 25, 2002 12:00 am

Sounds interesting, I have never worked with FI before but sure seems like a good challange.
Is Volvo using the exact FI sys like Saab? and do they have different size injectors?I mean wat's the best engine to take the CSI from, I know they are 2L and 2.3L(must be more)
I am asking this becouse I have already found several Volvos on asle for parts and no Saab.
Also, Is the best CSI on the 70-82 244Volvo or can be found on all the models made in the same period of time?This question goes for Saab too..
Thank you!

Martin
Thanks!

Martin
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by ray greenwood:
I personnally love D-jet...and L-jet, But I also love K-jet but have never personally used it on a type 4. But it should work great when tuned out. Look around the posts for evil ed. He specializes in CIS conversions. I specialize in CIS as well, but have never done tuning on any of it outside of the cars it came on. The SAAB system I can personnalyy vouch for as simple, has excellent enrichment features..including the adjustable fuel distributor for each injector...and several choices through the years of enrichment means from simple impulse, frequency valve and lambda box..to fifth injector..and sometimes more than one system at once. Also CIS can be turbo'd a lot easier than D-jet. Ray<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ray greenwood · Post by **ray greenwood** » Sat May 25, 2002 12:36 pm

There are soooo many CIS parts. Look for an engine with a bore, stroke and volume similar to what you are going to be using. The most important thing first, is to get the fuel distributor, warm-up regulator and injector from something that flows a similar amount of air and fuel. All else can be adjusted for with fuel pressure, metering plate position or an injector change. Don't forget, that considerable adjustment can be done by moving or changing the counterwight in the back of the airflow plate. That should be a last resort to balance sensitivity of the plate to the volume of air coming through the metering bowl. Ray

Martice · Post by **Martice** » Sat May 25, 2002 1:00 pm

I have talked to a fried of mine about this conversion and he said that if I get him all the parts he will help me install it.He used to work with FI but he never adapted a FI to an air cooled engine.We are both inventive guys and I think that with some help from you guys we may be able to do it.If a CSI from a Volvo is best I may have found one.

Is there anything else I would need?Any aftermarket stuff or other or just the Volvo parts?

I'll try to sell my carbs for now

Thank you very much!

Bobtail · Post by **Bobtail** » Sat May 25, 2002 2:02 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by ray greenwood:
There are soooo many CIS parts. Look for an engine with a bore, stroke and volume similar to what you are going to be using. The most important thing first, is to get the fuel distributor, warm-up regulator and injector from something that flows a similar amount of air and fuel. All else can be adjusted for with fuel pressure, metering plate position or an injector change. Don't forget, that considerable adjustment can be done by moving or changing the counterwight in the back of the airflow plate. That should be a last resort to balance sensitivity of the plate to the volume of air coming through the metering bowl. Ray<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And isn't that the beauty of K-jet Ray ,you pic a similar setup ,use the intake runner from the d-jet system fab your centre section and voila!

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