CIS vs. EFI

turbo6bar · Post by **turbo6bar** » Mon Mar 05, 2001 9:18 am

Guys, I'm at a crossroads. I have most of the parts to install my aftermarket fuel injection setup. However, in my search for intake manifolds, I became engaged in discussion with Gary Miller at Miller FI. I am impressed with Miller's professionalism and knowledge. However, I'm also interested in his CIS setup. I'm not interested in fabbing my own setup, since his $600 kit would give me virtually a bolt-on setup.

My question or debate is related to CIS vs. EFI. Any have experience with both? CIS guys proclaim easy tuning, and straightforward install. EFI is tougher to tune, but has unlimited potential. At the end of my EFI install, I'll be out $1100 including distributorless or coil on plug ignition. CIS would put me at around $300-400 less, after I refurbish my ignition and bring it up to standards.

EFI guys: Is the flexibility worth it? Any reliability issues? I doubt not, but wanted to ask.

CIS guys: How is economy? Better or worse than carbs?

Any comments welcome.
Jay

Sharkey · Post by **Sharkey** » Thu Mar 08, 2001 8:49 pm

I'm running an aftermarket EFI system using a Wolf 3D EMS. I can't speak for Miller CIS, but my Wolf is extremely programmable. The Wolf hand controller does all the programming so you don't need a lap top (although you can load your maps onto a removable "cartridge" and fiddle with your settings on your PC). The hand controller remains permanently attached to the ECU and can display up to a dozen changing parameters at once. So much for needing a bunch of additional gauges.

My website tells the whole story...

turbo6bar · Post by **turbo6bar** » Fri Mar 09, 2001 4:22 pm

Sharkey, I've spoken to you before via email. I own a second-hand Wolf 3D. I've talked to the guys at Wolf USA, and after conversing with them, I'm certain they will bend over backwards to keep me happy.

I'm going to stick with EFI simply because I already have all the parts. However, if I were starting from scratch, I would give Miller's FI setup a lot more consideration.

Jay

Post by **Tom Notch** » Fri Mar 09, 2001 5:09 pm

Love my Haltech F9a so much I'm doing a 2nd one in my new car. I don't mind the laptop thing, that was an advantage cuz I now have one to take on the road and do email and web surfing in hotel rooms.

Not well versed in CIS so will not try and compare. I do like the tuning capabilities of fully programmable efi. And once you play with what ever decent system you use (wolf in your cases), you, too will be proficient in tuning, It ain't Rocket Science!

noincome · Post by **noincome** » Wed Mar 14, 2001 8:19 am

If you already have most of the stuff for a CIS set-up and wish to have a fully programable system, K-Star engine management allows fuelling and/or timing of K/KE-Jet engines to be 'mapped' to meet exact requirements. No need to accept the 'across the board' tuning adjustments which solve one problem only to cause another. K-Star gives you all the fine tuning you will need for a K-Jet or KE-Jet engine, whether road car, modified car or competition car, normally aspirated or with a turbo.

Here is the link: www.milford.ndirect.co.uk/kstar.html#microprocessor

Here is the link for the US distributor: http://www.vwaftermarket.com/catalog/en ... Controller

[This message has been edited by noincome (edited 03-14-2001).]

Chuck · Post by **Chuck** » Sat Mar 17, 2001 7:01 pm

I would stear clear of CIS. I know it's limitations in watercooled VWs. I am sure you can do it but with alot of fabrication work. With EFI the hardest part is running the two fuel lines under the car. As far as tuning goes the CIS is a joke it is a factory fuel injetion system that was designed for a particular motor(1.8 liter watercooled)and never designed to be adjustable except for one little screw to make the whole fuel curve richer or leaner. Yes I know there is that K-star thing from europe but that is another 400 bucks and you would have 1200 bucks into a half assed ugly CIS injection sytem. What happen when you want to go turbo or go with huge cams and a big motor. Well the Cis can't supply enough gas for 300 H.P. a fully programable EFI can supply any amout of H.P.
The bottom line is go with the EFI you will be much happier in the long run spending a few extra bucks. If you want a system that is made for low H.P. applications and has no tunablility then go with the CIS but I know you will find out the limitations of such a sytem real quick.

Dave_Darling · Post by **Dave_Darling** » Sun Mar 18, 2001 12:52 pm

Chuck asks:
> What happen when you want to go turbo ...

This is what happens: http://www.rennlist.com/edvturbo.htm Ignore the bottom sections, that was just JD's way of giving Ed some grief.

--DD