1915 VW versus KL-ZE V6 versus Suby EJ20T

Baja Wes · Post by **Baja Wes** » Thu Aug 22, 2002 4:43 pm

For anyone who has ever wondered about the differences, go to here
http://offroadvw.net/bajawes/linktoV6.htm

and then click on the "engine options" link.

The info is as accurate as I can find.

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Wes offroadvw.net

ShaneW · Post by **ShaneW** » Sat Aug 24, 2002 6:40 pm

The only thing missing was the weight of the motors.

ShaneW

Bent · Post by **Bent** » Sun Aug 25, 2002 2:36 am

Hey Wes,
If you had any idea of how a properly built type 1 VW Stroker engine went you would not bother with these crappy conversions, tell us about how well it goes if and when it is done , most of these conversions don't turn out very well, though may look good on paper.
There is a V6 Chev powered 1982 T3 in my drive some guy just dropped off, I feel sorry for this owner who was told by the creator/Destoyer what a great thing this Chev powered Kombi. I.M.O. a real piece of sh*# .
Most Subaru jobs are a joke.
Hey Wes please don't ban me..

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Ben T Durie
Ben Durie Automotive Engineering

Baja Wes · Post by **Baja Wes** » Sun Aug 25, 2002 2:19 pm

Shane,

If you can tell me how much they weigh I will put it there

I am going to weigh the V6 when I get it out, so you'll have to wait until then.

Ben,

I never banned you, I never had the power to do that. If you don't like weird conversions then don't visit the conversion perversions page. I will be happy to take you for a drive in the V6 baja at the 2003 valla show.

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Wes offroadvw.net

reub-revhead · Post by **reub-revhead** » Mon Aug 26, 2002 2:29 am

Ben,

Tell me, how much does a fuel injected, totally streetable, 200+ HP (I wouldn't settle for less) type 1 engine really cost to build (in AU$) and what is the life expectancy of one such engine?

Don't mind me asking. I've had a few 'purists' say these conversions are a waste of time and how it is sacrilege. I would appreciate the cost comparison.

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Reub-Revhead
VolksROD Enthusiast
[email protected]
http://photos.yahoo.com/volxrod

Jim Molloy · Post by **Jim Molloy** » Mon Aug 26, 2002 3:42 pm

One of the main reasons I went for my
conversion was the cost of a hopped-up
VW engine.My rotary conversion cost $2500.
About the same as a 1914 bug engine with
kadrons.
With the modified carb and header I
have about 130-140 hp.Its a STOCK engine
internally with stock reliablity.
Redline is 7000 RPM and a used replacement
engine at the junkyard is $550.My engine is
a '81 and 12A have been known to go 200k
miles with normal maintance.
Why do all the air cooled lovers come
over to this forum and bother us.I don't
see many people in the Type 4 or Drag
forum telling people there air cooled engines
suck.
If you don't like it why read it ?Maybe
there jealous we don't have to worry about
new cams going flat and ruining their
nice engines.

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72 SuperVert-12A Rotary,Yaw Carb,Racing Beat Air Filter,Custom Stainless Exhaust,MSD Coils.Unique is what we seek,bizarre is what we are

reub-revhead · Post by **reub-revhead** » Tue Aug 27, 2002 3:18 am

that's all

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Reub-Revhead
VolksROD Enthusiast
[email protected]
http://photos.yahoo.com/volxrod

Bent · Post by **Bent** » Tue Aug 27, 2002 5:27 am

IMO the best alternative conversion for your old vwee is the most obvious one a 2.1 or larger water boxer VW not Subaru.
I never said an air cooled stroker was cheap
but they are very durable if built correctly,I build to a high standard so the components are not cheap.This is not to say that it can't be done cheap, you get what you are prepared to pay for. I have done several different conversions,there is a turbo Subaru powered Baja up near Fraser Island I had a lot to do with , started out cheap the engine only cost $1000? then the ignition module died $400 then the turbo started blowing coolant in ?? $600 , radiater, hoses, fans , adapters / ???
OK it goes well .but not as well as?
The wasser boxer is a top quality engine and the ideal upgrade from air to water.

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Ben T Durie
Ben Durie Automotive Engineering

Stephen · Post by **Stephen** » Tue Aug 27, 2002 8:04 am

I guess we're all entitled to our own opinion but why anyone would go to the trouble of installing a stock 2.1 waterboxer with their marginal head design and power increase is beyond me. I would say that if you are a purist a type four conversion would be you thing, however after being in a number of Subaru power bugs I can honestly say that to ignore their potential is to bury your head in the sand. I've met Wes and whilst his engine choice is not to my taste for a number of reasons his research is extensive and the conversion will be completed. If your gripe with non VW power plants is the corruption of the gene pool so to speak don't stress Wes's Baja is far from standard and you don't see to many splits powered by EJ20's, although I like the idea

reub-revhead · Post by **reub-revhead** » Tue Aug 27, 2002 2:52 pm

Bent,

Some dollar figures would be great. Am I looking at $5000, $10000, or would it be closer to $15000???.....or more for US quality parts?

How much would it cost me to have the engine specified built by you?

And how long is the life expectancy?

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Reub-Revhead
VolksROD Enthusiast
[email protected]
http://photos.yahoo.com/volxrod

Baja Wes · Post by **Baja Wes** » Tue Aug 27, 2002 11:14 pm

The wasserboxer is as ancient as the air cooled vw motor. I really don't see the point of installing what is essentially a watercooled beetle motor.

Having said that I did like Luke Pell's turbo wasser buggy at the 1999 Valla around Raleigh raceway.

Bent · Post by **Bent** » Wed Aug 28, 2002 4:11 am

Margenal head design and power ? your are now joking 110 hp at stock euro version is pretty good hey and you don't have a narrow power band like some , i found the older Subaru engines make more usefull punch. The new ones are crap. Lets face it any thing with forced induction will impress the mates and even a primitive old vw dub engine will fly with some boost applied.Reub, you can spend lots but if you really wan't one done to a price then see one of the glossy advertises as i work to a standard not price . You set me a budget and I will see what we can do.
Some prices are as follows.
1776cc new case and heads etc $5500
Quad throttle body EFI $2500
Stroker crank and rods combo $1800
I guess around 10000k
for 200hp naturally asp type 1 1955cc

[This message has been edited by Bent (edited 08-28-2002).]

Richard Olafsson · Post by **Richard Olafsson** » Wed Aug 28, 2002 11:57 pm

Bent,
What is so crap with the late Subaru engines?
I don't believe you can come close with price or reliability for the power.
I have well over 200bhp (nearer 250bhp but not dyno'd) with my 1997 Impreza turbo engine with faultless reliability, just change the oil, plugs and belts at intervals...

Rich

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http://www.ricola.co.uk

Cam · Post by **Cam** » Thu Aug 29, 2002 2:12 am

I definately agree with Ben on this one.
All the engine swaps I've looked at doing end up costing more than a good second hand performance VW motor. I mean lets face it, even 70BHP (at the wheels) in a beetle with 6000+RPM potential is enough to scare the sh!t out of any ballsy passenger. In my old daily driver, that's 1 BHP for every 10KGS.
Once I looked at engine conversions I was looking at forking out $2000+ for a front clip from a WRECKED vehicle, then around the $1000 mark for an engine conversion kit, on top of that I would need a dry sump kit (seen how low the jap motor sumps go?) which were in the thou's, again... then I had to get an engineers certificate. Whereas I could (in my state atleast) put in one of Jake's one off MASSIVE N/A type four motors and being VW and non turbo/super the rego guys would'nt flutter an eyelid.

Granted VW engines are'nt the cheapest... But going fast is'nt to begin with! And if you're too tight to spend $5G+ on a reliable motor I'd hate to see where you'd cut corners on the rest of the car.

Now, don't get me wrong Wes. I REALLY, REALLY dig what you're doing, dude and appreciate you keeping us posted (pardon the pun). But would it be rude to ask how long you've been around racing VW's for?

peace,
Cam

[This message has been edited by Cam (edited 08-29-2002).]

Bent · Post by **Bent** » Thu Aug 29, 2002 2:34 am

Hi,
just some points of interest, in NSW if you fit an engine from for example a 1990 model
car , your old vw must comply to all 1990 specs , not just the engine the whole car, also the capacity limit and wheel size is governed by the old vw's unmodified wieght so its no point tossing in several old fly-wheels and then getting a wiegh - bridge ticket, yes some engineers will pass em , but don't expect your insurance company to overlook these issues, so Wes your car would be no go in NSW. The legal mine field is just not worth it. You can however improve your bug engine up to 2.4 litres and keep it legal add a blower or turbo if you must..
6.5" wheels max.

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Ben T Durie
Ben Durie Automotive Engineering