Good Beetle Years

aussiebug · Post by **aussiebug** » Tue Jun 18, 2002 9:07 pm

I like the 70 model best myself, but since I've had one since new I guess I'm prejudiced. I did learn to drive in a 60 though, so have experienced older and "newer".

I like the 12v electrics (nothing wrong with 6v of course), the front heater outlets under the door instead of frying your heals, and the 2 slot engine lid (70/71 only unless it's a cabrio).

In Australia, the 70 still had the swing axles (IRS in the USA), 1500 engine (1600sp in the USA), front discs (drums in the USA), still has the bulb/reflector headlights (no sealed beams) so Halogens lights are a simple bulb replacement, metal dash (plastic in the USA); all of which make it a very drivable and tough car.

248,000 miles on the original engine (one rebuilt - to 1600sp), and the gearbox has never been touched.

I like my 68 too, but it does have a weaker wiper system( like Marc says) and the forward heater outlets are annoying on right hand drive cars - right next to your heal when using the throttle (it's winter here).

The superbugs do ride a little smoother but the front suspension MUST be kept in perfect condition or the dreaded "super shimmies" will grab you. The increased front trunk space is useful, but they can't take the rough roads and gutter thumps that a standard bug can take.

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Rob
Rob and Dave's aircooled VW pages
Repair and Maintenance for the home mechanic
http://www.geocities.com/aussiebug1970/

airc00led · Post by **airc00led** » Tue Jun 18, 2002 11:06 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by nicanor:
If anything I'd look for mechanical and body conditions instead of model years. A body restoration is ALOT more expesive to repair correctly than mechanical restoration. I would definitely take a rust free bug with a shot engine than a decent/budget bug with a rebuilt engine.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Same here

[This message has been edited by airc00led (edited 06-18-2002).]

Post by **Marc** » Wed Jun 19, 2002 7:05 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Sabrinafair:
 I'm guessing to stear a little clear of the '67 because of part expense and difficulty to locate right? Good to know, thanks!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If it's already been restored, in good shape mechanically, and none of the hard-to-find pieces are missing I wouldn't rule it out, but such a car will usually go for a premium price and won't stay on the market for long - lots of people share Gravedigger's enthusiasm for them.

63ragtop · Post by **63ragtop** » Wed Jun 19, 2002 12:06 pm

I dont know what it is, but there is something totally different about driving an early bug....Pre 67 and Im not just talking about emotionally. they just feel different. Lets face it, there are plenty of early cars that dont still have the original small motor and 6v electronics. Im just an early type of guy, but I will say that for reliability and abundance of parts, you probably cant go wrong with a later model car. They also have had less time to be messed with and/or fall appart.

Sabrinafair · Post by **Sabrinafair** » Wed Jun 19, 2002 12:11 pm

I'll definitely have to check that book out... but what are the things in it that are wrong? I think today I'm going to look at a '65 Beetle 12V with a rebuilt engine... Are there any querks I should know about a 65?

nicanor · Post by **nicanor** » Wed Jun 19, 2002 12:46 pm

Is this your first old VW? Have you riden or driven one yet? Just making sure that you know and not expect them to drive like a normal modern car. Most of them don't have an air vent with a fan, just an on/off that air flows only while moving. The newer models, like Supers, has more creature comforts (like padded dash). Just making sure you know this ahead of time too. They're not for everyone, but then again VW people aren't like everyone else

When I was selling my Ghia years ago some guys came to test drive it. They couldn't even shift it pass 3rd gear. Vintage cars has that vintage clutch feel unlike the boring modern trannies (I like the Subaru trannies though). I read alot of stories about guys restoring or buying a nice VW for their wife only to fins out they don't like "how they drive" and end up sitting there. To some these are annoyances, but to others these are the perks....

Post by **Marc** » Wed Jun 19, 2002 1:58 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Sabrinafair:
I think today I'm going to look at a '65 Beetle 12V with a rebuilt engine... Are there any querks I should know about a 65?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

`65 is the last year of the "king & link" front end that's getting harder and harder to find parts for, both quality rebuild kits and the "hard parts" (the spindles and link carriers) since off-road racers have been scouring the junkyards clean of them for 40 years. Make sure that the front end gets checked out by someone who knows what they're looking at.
It's the first year of the "1300" body (bigger windows, slightly curved windshield) and the doors are a bit rare.
There are a lot of ways to convert a 6V car to 12V - a thorough job requires a 1967-only wiper motor and switch (many times they'll just add a resistor to the 6V motor which sorta works).
Another step that's sometimes skipped is replacing the flywheel and starter with 12V parts (requires clearancing of the transmission bellhousing for the larger-diameter flywheel). A 6V starter will last a long time on 12V since it spins so fast that the motor starts RIGHT NOW and the starter doesn't have to run for long. The soft teeth of a 6V flywheel will wear out much more rapidly than those on a 12V, though. If the starter doesn't engage right every time, it won't be long before you're looking at replacing the flywheel - you'll need professional/experienced help with that.
The term "rebuilt engine" covers such a wide range of quality that it's virtually meaningless without at least an itemized parts list so it's foolhardy to speculate how much value that adds to the car; someone who knows the breed could hazard a guess if they saw & heard it.
In short, if you're ready to buy this (or any other) car you'd be smart to have it looked over by a professional who specializes in aircooled VWs first. $75 spent now could save you a lot more grief from surprises later, and if it needs any repairs you didn't notice you may be able to haggle the price down by more than enough to cover the mechanic's fee.

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"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." --H.L. Mencken
`67, 69, `77 Beetles, `73 II (Type I engine), `86 Audi 5000s, etc. etc.
Independent VW specialist shop manager/unit repairman 1978-1991
Lots of good links in my Yahoo! Briefcase
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/marcvellat

Sabrinafair · Post by **Sabrinafair** » Wed Jun 19, 2002 2:46 pm

Yes, I've already learned the lesson of taking someone's word about the quality of their car - I WILL be taking it to a mechanic to be checked before buying anything.. And I haven't driven an old Beetle but I recently drove 12 hours (one way) in a 78 Rabbit and I know they do drive differently but it's nothing I couldn't get used to and I certainly didn't mind at all... I know that older Beetles are character cars and that's half of what I love about them.. So with the 65, will it be an okay car to buy as long as it's okay mechanically but complete in the body?

Sabrinafair · Post by **Sabrinafair** » Wed Jun 19, 2002 2:49 pm

Actually, here's the car I'm looking at later today: http://adcache.collectorcartraderonline ... 366760.htm

bljones · Post by **bljones** » Wed Jun 19, 2002 6:22 pm

The "best" beetle for you may not be the "best" beetle for someone else. parts and driving feel issues have already been covered here, but no one has asked an important question yet- what do you plan to use the car for? Your driving requirements will go a long way towards figuring out the "best' beetle answer. Are you looking for a daily driver? How many miles do you plan to put on in a week? Are you looking for a summertime car, or is this going to be your only transportation, year-round? lots of highway driving, or strictly in-town? How much mechanical experience do you have? more importantly, how much do you want to learn??? Depending upon the answers, a 73 Superbeetle may be the "best" beetle for you, compared to a pre-1967.
.... Of course those of us who are true connoisseurs of air-coolness know that the "best" beetle is... a Thing.

Barry · Post by **Barry** » Wed Jun 19, 2002 6:37 pm

Have a GOOD dig around for rust.
In the floors, heater channels. Look inside the front wheels.
The battery is under the back seat and rust badly there. Lay on the ground and have a look under to see what rust you can see. Rust in the floor panels can be repaired (still money though) Rust in the frame head is not worth the bother.
Look at the bottom of the quarter panels front and rear. open the doors and look at the bottom of the A pillars where the door hinges

BE CRITICAL - a shiny car with rust in say the rear 1/4 panel will soon eat your money.

You can always drive a can with a dud paint job - a rusty car can endanger your life and eat you savings trying to fix a lost cause.

you WILL find a better one.

nicanor · Post by **nicanor** » Wed Jun 19, 2002 6:42 pm

Make sure the heater works if you plan to use it in winter. For this it'll need the heater boxes on the exhaust (not the J pipes) and solid heater channels and rocker panels. Also check for leaks around the window rubbers. These aren't expensive to replace so not as big of a deal. But by the limited opinion I can get from the pict and description it seems worth while to look at.

Sabrinafair · Post by **Sabrinafair** » Wed Jun 19, 2002 11:35 pm

Thanks Hlwimmer, that 57 is SWEET but I don't have $8500 to spend... part of my problem is that I don't really want to go over $3000 if I can help it. I'm hoping I can find something reliable in that price range that I can keep up and take care of...

DJ · Post by DJ » Wed Jun 19, 2002 11:51 pm

It's nice to see people recommending post 67 cars! I personally have a 68 with a 72 1600 dual poprt motor in it and couldn't be happier. Like everyone else said, your top priority should be the body. Make sure it's not chopped up though, no baja bugs or aftermarket sunroofs.

Do yourself a favor and go to the booskstore or library and pick up:
"How to Keep Your Volkswagen Alive 19 Ed: A Manual of Step-by-Step Procedures for the Compleat Idiot" by John Muir.

It's a great place to start for a VW rookie! While there are some errors, I've used it for everything from picking out my bug to pulling the engine.

Sabrinafair · Post by **Sabrinafair** » Thu Jun 20, 2002 9:50 am

I'll be sure to look really hard for rust... I'm actually really looking forward to learning the mechanics of whichever Beetle I choose and I think it's going to be fun (and cheaper) to fix things myself, I grew up around a mechanic and so I know a few of the basics.. The car I buy is going to be my only source of transportation so it has to be dependable