Cool Air Tin--Where does it go??

htrogers · Post by **htrogers** » Thu Nov 29, 2001 9:08 pm

OK, I'm somehwhat new at this. Seen innumerable "EMPI" shrink-wrapped pieces of obvious engine tin for a T1 hanging on the walls of local parts stores. Last w/e, walking by a garage sale that had some late SB parts, noticed a dusty, dusty unwrapped card of the same stuff, paid $5. (This guy is probably really mad at him Mom right now--there were SB fenders, a rear sear with only one slight tear, and a windscreen). I've got a 61er, with NO vents in the decklid, always suspected it run slightly hot (paranoia) so while I'm building the SUPER BOXER, this poor lil Mex 1600 probably needs all the help it can get all packed in this stuffy, hot space. SO WHERE DO THESE THINGS GO? Obviously on the cylinders, but I've had one guy tell me on top, another tell me they "wire" to the bottom. Checked some parts sites, and they say they help circulate air around the cylinders--OK--but do NOT discuss how they are fitted. Would like to help my Mex out, but don't want to do something thats going to make things worse--like deflect air FROM circulation. (Of course there were NO instructions of any kind.) Experience with this?

------------------
H T Rogers
61er T1 <in gestation process>
"Water? We don't need no stinkin' water!"

aussiebug · Post by **aussiebug** » Thu Nov 29, 2001 10:26 pm

If you have a look at the underside of the cylinders on a normal bug engine, you'll note that there are flat deflector plates between the cylinders, and also small ones in the centres of the heads.

These deflectors are there to force the cooling air through the underside fins for even cooling, otherwise the cooling air spill straight down and the undersides of cylinders and heads are undercooled.

"Cool tins" were and enhanced version of these deflectors, fitted to the type3 (pancake) engines to improve underside cooling. They cup the underside of the cylinders, forcing a more controlled flow of air through the cylinder fins. They also have "ears" which cup the exhaust valve area on the heads for the same purpose.

To fit them, you have to remove the push rods (which means removing the heads unless you have the quick-remove pushrods), remove the old deflector plate between the cylinders, and mount the cool tins. Yes - you might have to wire them on to the cylinders. The deflector plates under the heads should stay in place.

If you are running a doghouse oil cooler and fan set up in an early bug with a solid lid, you really should arrange for extra venting - the 1200 cooling fan supplied 18cf/sec and the under-window vents were enough for this. The doghouse fan delivers 25cf/sec, which needs extra ventilation. A friend with a 58 bug with warm 1914 engine has sections of front vent from a Kombi grafted to his engine lid - make it look faintly like the early Porsche engine lid vertical vents, and is still genuine VW

Regards

------------------
Rob
Rob and Dave's aircooled VW pages
Repair and Maintenance for the home mechanic
http://www.geocities.com/aussiebug1970/index.html

63ragtop · Post by **63ragtop** » Fri Nov 30, 2001 7:34 am

when someone tells you that you have to wire them to the cylinders, doesnt that make you think twice about them. If you want the best cooling, you should replace all the stock cooling tins and if possible, convert to a doghouse cooling system (if not already there). Honestly, I bought a set of those things and they dont fit properly (cheap) and they broke when I tried to put them on. I would personally look into getting the cooling as close to stock as you can - it was designed that way. If you do get them on and they help, then good for you. One more thing you have to think about......If your engine is running hot, you need to figure out why.

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Sat Dec 01, 2001 5:25 pm

These "super tins" are SUPER in a TIII< what they were designed for, as the air travels horizontally over the cylinders. In an upright engine the air travels vertical, and these tins do nothing except creat a restriction under the cylinders, backing up the air that could go to the fins..

We don't use them at all in any upright engine. If they were so good, VW would have used them in an upright as well. I have actually seen some engines melt, and this is the only thing that was done to the engine to contribute to heat.

I know someone will come in and say:"My engine has them, runs great and has 300HP and runs as cool as a block of dryice" well until you can compare the same engine back to back on the DYNO there is no way to tell.....Keep them stock, we do.

------------------
Jake Raby
Raby's Aircooled Technology
www.aircooledtechnology.com

jet-set · Post by **jet-set** » Sat Dec 01, 2001 7:42 pm

I read somewhere that VW actually sent a bulletin to its dealerships in the 60's or 70's stating that these tins should not be used on upright motors,only the type 3. Whether it is true or not I am not sure, perhaps someone can varify this.

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Sat Dec 01, 2001 11:43 pm

Yes, They did I have seen a copy of it. It is amazing what the aftermarket world can do to someones brain(and then their engine) these days..

------------------
Jake Raby
Raby's Aircooled Technology
www.aircooledtechnology.com

htrogers · Post by **htrogers** » Sun Dec 02, 2001 6:24 am

Well, again I guess this is a case of "sell anything they will buy"...I saw them in shops and in on-line cataloges, so I figured, for $5, WTH.
As far as my "suspicions" I bought this 61er as is with the 1600 Mex already installled. Since the stock rear deck of the 61 has no vents (and I ain't about to cut some) I'm assuming that it isn't cooling as well as it should. They oil don't stink (burned) after a change, etc. I'm going to have to live with the current set-up until the SUPER-BOXER is built, at which time I will retain the original "bug-gy" look of that fine 61 decklid, just take some other steps to insure cooling. I have some ideas in mind.

Thanks for the feedback. They'll be out in my next garage sale.

------------------
H T Rogers
61er T1 <in gestation process>
"Water? We don't need no stinkin' water!"

63ragtop · Post by **63ragtop** » Mon Dec 03, 2001 10:44 am

Is your car a convertable? You keep saying that the rear deck has no vents in it. If memory seves me, standard beetles didnt come with vents in the decklid. The vents are on the convertables decklids because they lack the vents in the body (below the rear window) that standards have. if in doubt, put some deck lid risers on.

fastfood · Post by **fastfood** » Mon Dec 03, 2001 10:00 pm

I thought it was a strange concept back in the '80's when the aftermarket started selling the "cool tin" why weren't these on Bugs from the factory. Then a friend of mine at the time (RIP Kenny) who was an old VW schooled mechanic, showed me the bulletin one day from a huge binder that he used to keep those bulletins in. I wish I had that binder now, I bet it would be some super reading, blow some crazy things done today out of the water........

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Mon Dec 03, 2001 11:35 pm

The engine should cool just fine without decklid vents. I cool very large TIV engines in beetles with NO issues with cooling. The majority of airflow enters the vents underneath the back window.

Find out why it is getting hot, before you go wild with decklid swaps.

------------------
Jake Raby
Raby's Aircooled Technology
www.aircooledtechnology.com

htrogers · Post by **htrogers** » Mon Dec 03, 2001 11:56 pm

No, its not a 'vert. This is a 61er with no vents on the lid itself, just on the body panel right above the lid. (the old 'W' lid) My suspicions are 1) clogged up old doghouse 2) 12v engine jammed in a 6v body (when I had to change the flywheel, hadda 6v bellhousing. Thanx, Jake n the others from stopping me from doin something that could have been rather stoopid. Main thing is the engine has never really had a good investigation on my part, and I'm just lookin to hold on until the SUPER BOXER is built. 'n yeah, Jake, I wanna retain the original 'W' lid for the look--thats I why I bought this conglomeration of parts from 61-70, is the 1961 VIN and the FEW original parts it retains. (Not that its ultimately going to BE 'orginial')

------------------
H T Rogers
61er T1 <in gestation process>
"Water? We don't need no stinkin' water!"