Something is up with Tuncan right now and so I can't post under my usual handle(Fweemer). So this should do for now.
Who has had some experience with NOS on the usual 4 banger aircooled? I have plans for putting NOS on one of my bugs just to experiment. I'm betting it would make passing on two lane highways so much better. I talked with a few about it and they suggested to replace some of the major engine parts like the pistons, connecting rods, and heads with forged since the original cast iron parts will melt. I will however do my best to keep the bursts at less then 5 sec at a time. The only reason I really need this for is passing. It's no dragster, it's a daily driver and so it must be reliable even for the 5 sec. Should I have any problems here?
Fweemer-
NOS
)-
Fweemer
- Posts: 80
- Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2000 12:01 am
NOS
Here is an answer I was looking for. I wonder if CB performance or Gene Berg has a Kit that goes for the 34 PICT 1600 engines.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sharkey:
<B>That's a toughie. The only people that would install nitrous oxide just for passing on highways, etc. would be motorhomes or towing vehicles. Nitrous oxide is simply too much fun to limit its use to "passing and climbing steep grades".
But if that's all you want the extra ponies for, then nitrous is definately the better choice. A properly designed and tuned turbo set-up can cost several thousand dollars by the time you're done (less if you use used components).
NEW nitrous oxide systems can be purchased for well under $1,000 and can be installed by most people in a day. It is by far the cheapest, easiest way of doubling your engine's horsepower. Unfortunately, using nitrous is addictive. It will take a strong willpower to limit its use to simply "passing" on the freeway, and you'll begin to make excuses to "pass" every 5.0 Mustang within line of sight.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It doesn't mention anything about engine meltdown or why a NOS tank needs to be heated. But I think he might be trying to get the message across about how temperamental an NOS set up can be once you get addicted to it.
Fweemer-
[This message has been edited by Fweemer (edited 01-18-2001).]
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sharkey:
<B>That's a toughie. The only people that would install nitrous oxide just for passing on highways, etc. would be motorhomes or towing vehicles. Nitrous oxide is simply too much fun to limit its use to "passing and climbing steep grades".
But if that's all you want the extra ponies for, then nitrous is definately the better choice. A properly designed and tuned turbo set-up can cost several thousand dollars by the time you're done (less if you use used components).
NEW nitrous oxide systems can be purchased for well under $1,000 and can be installed by most people in a day. It is by far the cheapest, easiest way of doubling your engine's horsepower. Unfortunately, using nitrous is addictive. It will take a strong willpower to limit its use to simply "passing" on the freeway, and you'll begin to make excuses to "pass" every 5.0 Mustang within line of sight.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It doesn't mention anything about engine meltdown or why a NOS tank needs to be heated. But I think he might be trying to get the message across about how temperamental an NOS set up can be once you get addicted to it.
Fweemer-
[This message has been edited by Fweemer (edited 01-18-2001).]
-
Travis
- Posts: 1143
- Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2000 12:01 am
NOS
Hey Fweemer, now don't kill me for saying this but I just put nitros on my Honda last weekend, it's an incredible rush, I'm really pleased w/ the NOS brand kit. I am not sure about for our AC engines, I think w/ a small boost like a 50 shot you aren't going to hurt much for a little while (at least that's what everyone says for the Civic's 4cyl) but be careful, what it can do if not tuned properly is create an overly rich or lean situation and cause detonation, there is where the danger lies.
Now here's my observations after a week, I need a pressure guage and a bottle warmer, I'm in TN where it isn't getting above 40° for a while and that bottle needs to be 75°-85° to keep a steady pressure of 900-950psi, I have temporarily solved this problem by hooking up my small space heater in my trunk for about 1/2hour before I leave when I can and heating up the bottle, but I keep a temp guage on the bottle to make sure I don't overdo it and blow the whole thing up. With this I get 5 or 6 REALLY good shots (those first few THROW you back in your seat) but after those uses the bottle cools off and the temp drops back down till the boost isn't nearly as fun as before, so I'll be investing in that automatic bottle warmer (it shuts itself on and off automatically) very soon. And the guage so that I can know when I have the pressure in the bottle to embarrass that Rustang
.
Like I said, I haven't tried any of this on my Ghia but relating my recent finds for you!
------------------
The Story of a Ghia
Now here's my observations after a week, I need a pressure guage and a bottle warmer, I'm in TN where it isn't getting above 40° for a while and that bottle needs to be 75°-85° to keep a steady pressure of 900-950psi, I have temporarily solved this problem by hooking up my small space heater in my trunk for about 1/2hour before I leave when I can and heating up the bottle, but I keep a temp guage on the bottle to make sure I don't overdo it and blow the whole thing up. With this I get 5 or 6 REALLY good shots (those first few THROW you back in your seat) but after those uses the bottle cools off and the temp drops back down till the boost isn't nearly as fun as before, so I'll be investing in that automatic bottle warmer (it shuts itself on and off automatically) very soon. And the guage so that I can know when I have the pressure in the bottle to embarrass that Rustang
.Like I said, I haven't tried any of this on my Ghia but relating my recent finds for you!
------------------
The Story of a Ghia
-
tomt
- Posts: 736
- Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2000 12:01 am
NOS
You don't really need to replace all the innards before you add the nitrous. All the weak stuff will break and then you'll know. Seriously, if you get addicted to nitrous you'll be wondering how it would do with a bigger engine just about the time you need a new engine anyway.
-
Fweemer
- Posts: 80
- Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2000 12:01 am
NOS
Even more useful information.
<<<<
I've had quite a few conversations via ICQ and private email regarding
nitrous oxide ever since I made a post expressing my views on its use on an
ACVW motor. While I have no practical experience with nitrous oxide, the
following is 100% proven theory, folks...
Nitrous oxide was thought to have been first used by the Germans during WW2
in their Messerschmitt Me-109F fighters. It was used to increase low
altitude flight speeds on the Russian front but it was later determined
that these superior planes didn't really need this sort of performance
boost. The German airforce later shifted the development of nitrous oxide
systems to reconnaissance aircraft, which needed it to fly fast at high
altitudes over Britain. The British also used nitrous oxide on the
Mosquito twin-engine light bomber whose only defense was not guns but
acceleration. Officially, US planes did not experiment with nitrous oxide
due to their overall superiority against all adversaries.
After the war, jet engines were at the forefront of aviation technology and
there was no longer a need for continued development of aircraft nitrous
oxide systems. Rumour had it that a few American pilots returning from
Britain were also avid race car drivers, and a few of them experimented
with nitrous in automobile engines. Unfortunately, nitrous oxide is very
inefficient when it comes to power vs. mass, and a form of racing did not
exist that could really make use of it-- until drag racing was born.
Granted, a few people like Smokey Yunick used it to post favourable
qualifying times or track lap records, or during passing at a critical
moment in the race, but nitrous proved to be so effective that they
eventually banned it's use in most forms of racing.
Nitrous produced horsepower in either three or four ways, depending on
whether it enters the engine as a liquid or as a gas. Here's what happens:
1) The nitrous oxide is stored in a tank under pressures approaching
1,000 PSI to keep it in a liquid state. When the engine or driver
triggers the nitrous, solenoids open up to provide the engine with
a carefully metered amount of both additional fuel and nitrous
oxide (called a "wet system") or just nitrous oxide (called a "dry
system"). The nitrous oxide flows from the tank into the engine's
intake system, either near the throttle plates (via an injector
plate) or directly to the intake ports a few inches from the intake
valves (called a "fogger" set-up). Upon injection, the nitrous
oxide undergoes a rapid decrease in pressure-- from 1,000 PSI to
atmospheric pressure. Like air escaping the valve on a tire, the
nitrous undergoes a tremendous increase in temperature-- which in
turn drops the temperature of the surrounding incoming air/fuel
charge by a similar amount. As most engine builders know, a cold
air/fuel charge is much denser than a hot one, thereby increasing
the amount of air and fuel crammed into the cylinder. More air/
fuel in means more horsepower out.
2) As the liquid nitrous oxide warms up to -129 F it undergoes a phase
change and converts to a gas (aka: evaporation or vaporization).
If you remember your high school science classes, a substance that
undergoes such a phase change releases a great amount of heat, just
as water must absorb a great deal of heat energy to turn itself
into steam). This is called "latent heat" because although energy
is being released during the phase change, the temperature of the
substance does not change. This cools the air/fuel charge even
more.
3) The gaseous nitrous oxide is now at -129 F, while the incoming air/
fuel charge is obviously still much warmer than that. Like step 1,
the result is continued cooling of the incoming air/fuel charge.
[FACT: steps 1 through 3 are reportedly responsible for
almost HALF the horsepower gains on an engine equipped with
nitrous oxide injection, with step 2 contributing the most.]
4) Nitrous oxide consists of two nitrogen atoms and one oxygen atom,
and is 36.35% oxygen by weight. As mentioned in step 1, the goal
of any high performance engine design is to get as much air and
fuel into the cylinders as possible. Turbos and superchargers do
this by physically compressing atmospheric air and forcing it into
the engine, while nitrous oxide carries the additional oxygen in
initially as a liquid (which is about 300 times as efficient). A
wet system will inject a carefully metered amount of additional
gasoline into the air stream when the nitrous is triggered,
thereby ensuring that the proper air/fuel ratio is maintained. A
dry system accomplishes the same task by ordering the engine's
fuel pressure regulator to increase fuel pressure, thereby up'ing
the flow of fuel. Wet systems are usually considered safer and
more dependable that dry systems.
5) Even though nitrous oxide is 36.35% oxygen by weight, that oxygen
is still chemically bonded to the nitrogen atoms. Chemical bonds
are one of the strongest bonds in science. Lucky for us, however,
the chemical bonds in nitrous oxide molecules are "endothermic",
which means that the bonds *release* energy as they are broken.
As the existing air/fuel mixture is ignited and begins to burn,
the temperatures within the burning mixture exceed 572 F. At that
point, the chemical bonds within the gaseous nitrous oxide break
down. The released oxygen combines with the extra fuel that was
injected with the nitrous oxide, while the nitrogen supposedly (?)
helps to alleviate detonation. The energy released when the bonds
break is in the form of heat-- heat = pressure, pressure = work,
and work = horsepower. In layman's terms, the extra released heat
pushes down on the piston.
So there you have it. The injection of liquid nitrous oxide into an engine
helps provide a substantial increase in horsepower by a) cooling the intake
charge as the nitrous oxide converts from a liquid to a gas, b) continued
cooling of the intake charge as the nitrous oxide warms up from its initial
sub -129 F, as well as by c) adding additional heat to the combustion
process within the combustion chamber as the nitrous oxide breaks down into
nitrogen and oxygen, and d) as the released oxygen combines with the excess
fuel inside the combustion chamber. If the pressure within the storage
bottle is too low, only gaseous nitrous oxide will be released into the
engine and the benefits of the phase change will not be experienced.
Although I don't have any hands-on experience with nitrous oxide systems, I
am aware that "surging" does occur when the bottle is less than one-quarter
full.
I mentioned in step 4 that the released nitrogen supposedly acts as a
deterent to detonation. According to my references this hasn't been fully
explained or understood (theory would state that the oposite should be
true). One idea suggests that the free nitrogen slows down the flame front
inside the combustion chamber, providing a "smoother" burn that is much
easier on pistons, rings, bearings, etc. The nitrogen is also thought to
lower exhaust valve temperatures-- a benefit in any engine. Both of these
theories have not been proven as such, although engine teardowns have
revealed bearings and rings that were still it fine shape, while EGT gauges
have detected a 75 F drop in exhaust valve temperatures. Likewise, testing
has shown that engines have experienced power increases of over 40% before
detonation sets in.
There is also some speculation as to where the nitrous oxide should be
introduced in the intake system. By injecting it near the base of the
carburetor or throttle body, the nitrous oxide spends more time suspended
in the intake charge, thereby cooling it to a greater degree. However,
tests have shown that this method often cools the fuel on a carbureted or
TBI set-up so much that it won't fully vaporize. This causes the fuel to
remain out of suspension and some cylinders may receive more nitrous oxide
and/or fuel than others (note that this is not a problem on port injected
fuel injection systems). By placing the nitrous injection ports closer to
the intake valves, the fuel remains in suspension. However, less cooling
takes place since the nitrous oxide does not exist within the intake system
for as long. All is not lost, however, since this also means that much of
the nitrous oxide will enter the combustion chamber in liquid form. As
hinted at earlier, liquid nitrous oxide is about 300 times more dense than
vaporized nitrous oxide, which translates into much more oxygen injected
into the combustion chamber. Cheaper kits introduce the nitrous oxide near
the throttle body because usually only a single nozzle or injector plate is
required, as opposed to the more expensive fogger systems that utilize
separate nitrous oxide and fuel jets for each intake runner.
Some people question whether it is possible to build an ACVW engine to
handle the extra horsepower provided by the nitrous oxide. My answer to
this statement is this: if you can build a dependible 120-150 hp engine
using top quality parts, you should be able to build a milder engine to the
same standards so that when you open up the bottle, the extra 40-60 hp
shouldn't break anything. In fact, the theory that the free nitrogen acts
to slow down the flame front within the combustion chamber means that the
internal parts of the engine are subjected to much less peak stresses. If
you plan on using nitrous quite a bit, larger exhaust valves should be used
in conjunction with special nitrous cams. A large bore header would be a
good idea, as would be running spark plugs one (or even two) heat ranges
colder. Nitrous oxide and fuel pressure gauges would be a must, as would
an air/fuel gauge and an exhaust gas temperature gauge.
Without taking the nitrous oxide system into consideration, the engine can
be designed with dependability, drivability, and fuel economy in mind. The
engine will idle smoothly, get good gas milage, and easily pass local smog
emission testing. Such an engine will also be significantly cheaper than a
more powerful engine built to the same level of dependability (or if that
isn't possible, *two* powerful engines of greatly reduced dependability).
Expensive carburetion and head porting isn't as big of an issue as it is on
a normally aspirated non-nitrous engine because the extra oxygen in the
nitrous oxide is being delivered initially as a liquid.
If an engine running on nitrous oxide were to suddenly go lean, however
(which is more likely on a dry system than on a wet system), look out.
Without the extra fuel the engine will run dangerously lean, and will melt
pistons if you are not careful. Nitrous oxide already increases the
combustion chamber temperatures when used, which is potentially dangerous
on an air-cooled engine. However, nitrous oxide has been used successfully
on many ACVWs, and NOS (Nitrous Oxide Systems, a division of Holley, Inc.)
even makes (made?) kits specifically for these engines. As mentioned
above, there is strong evidence that the free nitrogen helps to keep the
exhaust valves running cooler, while promoting a "smoother" burn within the
combustion chamber. If you're really worried about the extra heat, water
injection* can be timed to operate in conjunction with the nitrous oxide.
* even though water and nitrous oxide both contain oxygen, the chemical
bonds that hold the hydrogen and oxygen atoms together are much, much
stronger than they are in nitrous oxide. I also believe that the bonds
in water are "exothermic", meaning that they require additional energy
to break down (I'm not positive, however).
>>>>
Written by: James Lindsay
[This message has been edited by Fweemer (edited 01-18-2001).]
<<<<
I've had quite a few conversations via ICQ and private email regarding
nitrous oxide ever since I made a post expressing my views on its use on an
ACVW motor. While I have no practical experience with nitrous oxide, the
following is 100% proven theory, folks...
Nitrous oxide was thought to have been first used by the Germans during WW2
in their Messerschmitt Me-109F fighters. It was used to increase low
altitude flight speeds on the Russian front but it was later determined
that these superior planes didn't really need this sort of performance
boost. The German airforce later shifted the development of nitrous oxide
systems to reconnaissance aircraft, which needed it to fly fast at high
altitudes over Britain. The British also used nitrous oxide on the
Mosquito twin-engine light bomber whose only defense was not guns but
acceleration. Officially, US planes did not experiment with nitrous oxide
due to their overall superiority against all adversaries.
After the war, jet engines were at the forefront of aviation technology and
there was no longer a need for continued development of aircraft nitrous
oxide systems. Rumour had it that a few American pilots returning from
Britain were also avid race car drivers, and a few of them experimented
with nitrous in automobile engines. Unfortunately, nitrous oxide is very
inefficient when it comes to power vs. mass, and a form of racing did not
exist that could really make use of it-- until drag racing was born.
Granted, a few people like Smokey Yunick used it to post favourable
qualifying times or track lap records, or during passing at a critical
moment in the race, but nitrous proved to be so effective that they
eventually banned it's use in most forms of racing.
Nitrous produced horsepower in either three or four ways, depending on
whether it enters the engine as a liquid or as a gas. Here's what happens:
1) The nitrous oxide is stored in a tank under pressures approaching
1,000 PSI to keep it in a liquid state. When the engine or driver
triggers the nitrous, solenoids open up to provide the engine with
a carefully metered amount of both additional fuel and nitrous
oxide (called a "wet system") or just nitrous oxide (called a "dry
system"). The nitrous oxide flows from the tank into the engine's
intake system, either near the throttle plates (via an injector
plate) or directly to the intake ports a few inches from the intake
valves (called a "fogger" set-up). Upon injection, the nitrous
oxide undergoes a rapid decrease in pressure-- from 1,000 PSI to
atmospheric pressure. Like air escaping the valve on a tire, the
nitrous undergoes a tremendous increase in temperature-- which in
turn drops the temperature of the surrounding incoming air/fuel
charge by a similar amount. As most engine builders know, a cold
air/fuel charge is much denser than a hot one, thereby increasing
the amount of air and fuel crammed into the cylinder. More air/
fuel in means more horsepower out.
2) As the liquid nitrous oxide warms up to -129 F it undergoes a phase
change and converts to a gas (aka: evaporation or vaporization).
If you remember your high school science classes, a substance that
undergoes such a phase change releases a great amount of heat, just
as water must absorb a great deal of heat energy to turn itself
into steam). This is called "latent heat" because although energy
is being released during the phase change, the temperature of the
substance does not change. This cools the air/fuel charge even
more.
3) The gaseous nitrous oxide is now at -129 F, while the incoming air/
fuel charge is obviously still much warmer than that. Like step 1,
the result is continued cooling of the incoming air/fuel charge.
[FACT: steps 1 through 3 are reportedly responsible for
almost HALF the horsepower gains on an engine equipped with
nitrous oxide injection, with step 2 contributing the most.]
4) Nitrous oxide consists of two nitrogen atoms and one oxygen atom,
and is 36.35% oxygen by weight. As mentioned in step 1, the goal
of any high performance engine design is to get as much air and
fuel into the cylinders as possible. Turbos and superchargers do
this by physically compressing atmospheric air and forcing it into
the engine, while nitrous oxide carries the additional oxygen in
initially as a liquid (which is about 300 times as efficient). A
wet system will inject a carefully metered amount of additional
gasoline into the air stream when the nitrous is triggered,
thereby ensuring that the proper air/fuel ratio is maintained. A
dry system accomplishes the same task by ordering the engine's
fuel pressure regulator to increase fuel pressure, thereby up'ing
the flow of fuel. Wet systems are usually considered safer and
more dependable that dry systems.
5) Even though nitrous oxide is 36.35% oxygen by weight, that oxygen
is still chemically bonded to the nitrogen atoms. Chemical bonds
are one of the strongest bonds in science. Lucky for us, however,
the chemical bonds in nitrous oxide molecules are "endothermic",
which means that the bonds *release* energy as they are broken.
As the existing air/fuel mixture is ignited and begins to burn,
the temperatures within the burning mixture exceed 572 F. At that
point, the chemical bonds within the gaseous nitrous oxide break
down. The released oxygen combines with the extra fuel that was
injected with the nitrous oxide, while the nitrogen supposedly (?)
helps to alleviate detonation. The energy released when the bonds
break is in the form of heat-- heat = pressure, pressure = work,
and work = horsepower. In layman's terms, the extra released heat
pushes down on the piston.
So there you have it. The injection of liquid nitrous oxide into an engine
helps provide a substantial increase in horsepower by a) cooling the intake
charge as the nitrous oxide converts from a liquid to a gas, b) continued
cooling of the intake charge as the nitrous oxide warms up from its initial
sub -129 F, as well as by c) adding additional heat to the combustion
process within the combustion chamber as the nitrous oxide breaks down into
nitrogen and oxygen, and d) as the released oxygen combines with the excess
fuel inside the combustion chamber. If the pressure within the storage
bottle is too low, only gaseous nitrous oxide will be released into the
engine and the benefits of the phase change will not be experienced.
Although I don't have any hands-on experience with nitrous oxide systems, I
am aware that "surging" does occur when the bottle is less than one-quarter
full.
I mentioned in step 4 that the released nitrogen supposedly acts as a
deterent to detonation. According to my references this hasn't been fully
explained or understood (theory would state that the oposite should be
true). One idea suggests that the free nitrogen slows down the flame front
inside the combustion chamber, providing a "smoother" burn that is much
easier on pistons, rings, bearings, etc. The nitrogen is also thought to
lower exhaust valve temperatures-- a benefit in any engine. Both of these
theories have not been proven as such, although engine teardowns have
revealed bearings and rings that were still it fine shape, while EGT gauges
have detected a 75 F drop in exhaust valve temperatures. Likewise, testing
has shown that engines have experienced power increases of over 40% before
detonation sets in.
There is also some speculation as to where the nitrous oxide should be
introduced in the intake system. By injecting it near the base of the
carburetor or throttle body, the nitrous oxide spends more time suspended
in the intake charge, thereby cooling it to a greater degree. However,
tests have shown that this method often cools the fuel on a carbureted or
TBI set-up so much that it won't fully vaporize. This causes the fuel to
remain out of suspension and some cylinders may receive more nitrous oxide
and/or fuel than others (note that this is not a problem on port injected
fuel injection systems). By placing the nitrous injection ports closer to
the intake valves, the fuel remains in suspension. However, less cooling
takes place since the nitrous oxide does not exist within the intake system
for as long. All is not lost, however, since this also means that much of
the nitrous oxide will enter the combustion chamber in liquid form. As
hinted at earlier, liquid nitrous oxide is about 300 times more dense than
vaporized nitrous oxide, which translates into much more oxygen injected
into the combustion chamber. Cheaper kits introduce the nitrous oxide near
the throttle body because usually only a single nozzle or injector plate is
required, as opposed to the more expensive fogger systems that utilize
separate nitrous oxide and fuel jets for each intake runner.
Some people question whether it is possible to build an ACVW engine to
handle the extra horsepower provided by the nitrous oxide. My answer to
this statement is this: if you can build a dependible 120-150 hp engine
using top quality parts, you should be able to build a milder engine to the
same standards so that when you open up the bottle, the extra 40-60 hp
shouldn't break anything. In fact, the theory that the free nitrogen acts
to slow down the flame front within the combustion chamber means that the
internal parts of the engine are subjected to much less peak stresses. If
you plan on using nitrous quite a bit, larger exhaust valves should be used
in conjunction with special nitrous cams. A large bore header would be a
good idea, as would be running spark plugs one (or even two) heat ranges
colder. Nitrous oxide and fuel pressure gauges would be a must, as would
an air/fuel gauge and an exhaust gas temperature gauge.
Without taking the nitrous oxide system into consideration, the engine can
be designed with dependability, drivability, and fuel economy in mind. The
engine will idle smoothly, get good gas milage, and easily pass local smog
emission testing. Such an engine will also be significantly cheaper than a
more powerful engine built to the same level of dependability (or if that
isn't possible, *two* powerful engines of greatly reduced dependability).
Expensive carburetion and head porting isn't as big of an issue as it is on
a normally aspirated non-nitrous engine because the extra oxygen in the
nitrous oxide is being delivered initially as a liquid.
If an engine running on nitrous oxide were to suddenly go lean, however
(which is more likely on a dry system than on a wet system), look out.
Without the extra fuel the engine will run dangerously lean, and will melt
pistons if you are not careful. Nitrous oxide already increases the
combustion chamber temperatures when used, which is potentially dangerous
on an air-cooled engine. However, nitrous oxide has been used successfully
on many ACVWs, and NOS (Nitrous Oxide Systems, a division of Holley, Inc.)
even makes (made?) kits specifically for these engines. As mentioned
above, there is strong evidence that the free nitrogen helps to keep the
exhaust valves running cooler, while promoting a "smoother" burn within the
combustion chamber. If you're really worried about the extra heat, water
injection* can be timed to operate in conjunction with the nitrous oxide.
* even though water and nitrous oxide both contain oxygen, the chemical
bonds that hold the hydrogen and oxygen atoms together are much, much
stronger than they are in nitrous oxide. I also believe that the bonds
in water are "exothermic", meaning that they require additional energy
to break down (I'm not positive, however).
>>>>
Written by: James Lindsay
[This message has been edited by Fweemer (edited 01-18-2001).]
-
Travis
- Posts: 1143
- Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2000 12:01 am
NOS
Wow...that's what I meant to say
and to sum up, it's a LOT of fun!
------------------
The Story of a Ghia
and to sum up, it's a LOT of fun!
------------------
The Story of a Ghia
-
Travis
- Posts: 1143
- Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2000 12:01 am
NOS
sure they do
www.nosnitrous.com/HiOctn/ProdLine/Prod ... talog.html
I also have a import-parts business and can order these systems if you are interested e-mail me directly
------------------
The Story of a Ghia
[This message has been edited by Travis (edited 01-19-2001).]
www.nosnitrous.com/HiOctn/ProdLine/Prod ... talog.html
I also have a import-parts business and can order these systems if you are interested e-mail me directly
------------------
The Story of a Ghia
[This message has been edited by Travis (edited 01-19-2001).]
-
Spyke
- Posts: 365
- Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2000 12:01 am
NOS
Fweemer: Your post raises a bunch of questions with me. I'm curious as to what you are refering to when you say "theory would state that the opposite would be true"? What/who's theory? In general, anything that cools the incoming charge and/or the combustion chamber will reduce an engine's tendency to knock, I'm trying to figure out why it would be thought that knock would get worse.
The "slower flame front" theory of controlling knock has never made sense to me. Where are you getting information on this? I'd like to see data showing how a slower flame front is beneficial to knock or anything else, but so far I haven't been able to come up with anything.
"lower peak stresses" are given as one benefit, but I wonder just how much lower they could be? Can you substantially lower the peak stress (from combustion) while at the same time increasing the BMEP enough to get significant increases in horsepower? (And are peak stresses seen during the power stroke really a problem anyway, assuming it's not knocking?) Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the peak stresses in the bearing/rod/wristpin/piston don't even occur during the power stroke, right? (assuming no knocking and no blower)
I also wonder; if the flame front is slower with NOS, is the ignition somehow modified to advance the timing when the NOS is used?
-Craig
The "slower flame front" theory of controlling knock has never made sense to me. Where are you getting information on this? I'd like to see data showing how a slower flame front is beneficial to knock or anything else, but so far I haven't been able to come up with anything.
"lower peak stresses" are given as one benefit, but I wonder just how much lower they could be? Can you substantially lower the peak stress (from combustion) while at the same time increasing the BMEP enough to get significant increases in horsepower? (And are peak stresses seen during the power stroke really a problem anyway, assuming it's not knocking?) Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the peak stresses in the bearing/rod/wristpin/piston don't even occur during the power stroke, right? (assuming no knocking and no blower)
I also wonder; if the flame front is slower with NOS, is the ignition somehow modified to advance the timing when the NOS is used?
-Craig
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Fweemer
- Posts: 80
- Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2000 12:01 am
NOS
If your asking me I honestly don't know. It was not my Essay. If James Lindsay would check out this thread maybe he will fill us in.
Fweemer-
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Spyke:
<B>Fweemer: Your post raises a bunch of questions with me. I'm curious as to what you are refering to when you say "theory would state that the opposite would be true"? What/who's theory? In general, anything that cools the incoming charge and/or the combustion chamber will reduce an engine's tendency to knock, I'm trying to figure out why it would be thought that knock would get worse.
The "slower flame front" theory of controlling knock has never made sense to me. Where are you getting information on this? I'd like to see data showing how a slower flame front is beneficial to knock or anything else, but so far I haven't been able to come up with anything.
"lower peak stresses" are given as one benefit, but I wonder just how much lower they could be? Can you substantially lower the peak stress (from combustion) while at the same time increasing the BMEP enough to get significant increases in horsepower? (And are peak stresses seen during the power stroke really a problem anyway, assuming it's not knocking?) Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the peak stresses in the bearing/rod/wristpin/piston don't even occur during the power stroke, right? (assuming no knocking and no blower)
I also wonder; if the flame front is slower with NOS, is the ignition somehow modified to advance the timing when the NOS is used?
-Craig</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Fweemer-
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Spyke:
<B>Fweemer: Your post raises a bunch of questions with me. I'm curious as to what you are refering to when you say "theory would state that the opposite would be true"? What/who's theory? In general, anything that cools the incoming charge and/or the combustion chamber will reduce an engine's tendency to knock, I'm trying to figure out why it would be thought that knock would get worse.
The "slower flame front" theory of controlling knock has never made sense to me. Where are you getting information on this? I'd like to see data showing how a slower flame front is beneficial to knock or anything else, but so far I haven't been able to come up with anything.
"lower peak stresses" are given as one benefit, but I wonder just how much lower they could be? Can you substantially lower the peak stress (from combustion) while at the same time increasing the BMEP enough to get significant increases in horsepower? (And are peak stresses seen during the power stroke really a problem anyway, assuming it's not knocking?) Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the peak stresses in the bearing/rod/wristpin/piston don't even occur during the power stroke, right? (assuming no knocking and no blower)
I also wonder; if the flame front is slower with NOS, is the ignition somehow modified to advance the timing when the NOS is used?
-Craig</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
-
Y3K
- Posts: 324
- Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 12:01 am
NOS
And then there is this chap with a Beetle with a NOS system that made this Porsche 911 look like a tortoise untill:
"The failure was caused by a fault in the electrical system. A conrod dislodged the alternator from it's pedestal."
Kobus
PS Maybe first just for overtaking, but once you're addicted..........
"The failure was caused by a fault in the electrical system. A conrod dislodged the alternator from it's pedestal."
Kobus
PS Maybe first just for overtaking, but once you're addicted..........
-
eric
- Posts: 343
- Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2000 12:01 am
NOS
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Spyke:
<B>Fweemer: Your post raises a bunch of questions with me. I'm curious as to what you are refering to when you say "theory would state that the opposite would be true"? What/who's theory? In general, anything that cools the incoming charge and/or the combustion chamber will reduce an engine's tendency to knock, I'm trying to figure out why it would be thought that knock would get worse.
The "slower flame front" theory of controlling knock has never made sense to me. Where are you getting information on this? I'd like to see data showing how a slower flame front is beneficial to knock or anything else, but so far I haven't been able to come up with anything.
"lower peak stresses" are given as one benefit, but I wonder just how much lower they could be? Can you substantially lower the peak stress (from combustion) while at the same time increasing the BMEP enough to get significant increases in horsepower? (And are peak stresses seen during the power stroke really a problem anyway, assuming it's not knocking?) Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the peak stresses in the bearing/rod/wristpin/piston don't even occur during the power stroke, right? (assuming no knocking and no blower)
I also wonder; if the flame front is slower with NOS, is the ignition somehow modified to advance the timing when the NOS is used?
-Craig</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
They used to (maybe they still do?) have a device to retard the spark a few degrees when the nitrous kicked in.
------------------
Eric
'72 SB
<B>Fweemer: Your post raises a bunch of questions with me. I'm curious as to what you are refering to when you say "theory would state that the opposite would be true"? What/who's theory? In general, anything that cools the incoming charge and/or the combustion chamber will reduce an engine's tendency to knock, I'm trying to figure out why it would be thought that knock would get worse.
The "slower flame front" theory of controlling knock has never made sense to me. Where are you getting information on this? I'd like to see data showing how a slower flame front is beneficial to knock or anything else, but so far I haven't been able to come up with anything.
"lower peak stresses" are given as one benefit, but I wonder just how much lower they could be? Can you substantially lower the peak stress (from combustion) while at the same time increasing the BMEP enough to get significant increases in horsepower? (And are peak stresses seen during the power stroke really a problem anyway, assuming it's not knocking?) Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the peak stresses in the bearing/rod/wristpin/piston don't even occur during the power stroke, right? (assuming no knocking and no blower)
I also wonder; if the flame front is slower with NOS, is the ignition somehow modified to advance the timing when the NOS is used?
-Craig</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
They used to (maybe they still do?) have a device to retard the spark a few degrees when the nitrous kicked in.
------------------
Eric
'72 SB