type 1 vs. type 4 (no flames)

dan · Post by **dan** » Sun May 20, 2001 3:31 pm

>>>that the T4s are not quick. They are not as quick as T1s with the same power for sure...T4s have to rotate more weight.<<<

sorry, but offhand i'm not familiar with the csp type 4 you mentioned that runs 10.xx's.

and while i personally have zero need or desire for a type 4, i'd like to know what the difference in rotating weight is... can you or anyone else clarify that statement?

dan
oceanstreetvideo.com

James2 · Post by **James2** » Sun May 20, 2001 5:44 pm

Well Dan, I'm sorry me and you had a disagreement. looks like I've really upset this board. I lost my temper because some things were implied and said about a VERY nice person, who deserves alot more respect then they were getting.

Anyway, let's agree to disagree. I promise not to say anything negative about you or your videos. I'm sure we will disagree again in the future. I hope I can base my reason on facts and hope you will do the same without resorting to personal attacks on each other.

Bergman, I know who you really are and I think your pretty cool, up until the little Erne crap. Quality cost. If I want good plumbing, I call the 70 hr plumber or do it myself. If you want a good engine, expect to pay, or do it yourself. That's the simple fact. No one worth their salt is going to work for less. Any, please forgive me for child like insults I hurled at you.

Oh, yea, we got indoor plumbing last year, so there!

flying tomato · Post by **flying tomato** » Sun May 20, 2001 7:06 pm

Jake or any other T 4 experts, has anyone tried the Performance Technology Fred Simpson casted T 4 heads? I thought these might make the T 4 and 1 engines equals regarding head porting/flow potential.
3 liter T 4 with awesome heads would get my interest.

newestone · Post by **newestone** » Sun May 20, 2001 7:31 pm

how much will the Remmelle heads cost and when will they be available?

Alexander · Post by **Alexander** » Sun May 20, 2001 8:47 pm

How far along are the Performance Tech heads?

Are there any news on them?

Alex

Post by **Tom Notch** » Sun May 20, 2001 9:43 pm

Well, Mike, I am waiting for those heads to show up and let the rest of the world de-clunk them. Usually any totally new product needs some de-clunking and I learned patience as a youing man. When they do show up and prove themselves, I will be in line for a set. Eithrv that or a turbo,

BTW, started the assembly work the other day and the headers are now real and exsist on the car, cya in Denver and I'll reserve some seat timer for ya. Any particular music?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by flying tomato:
has anyone tried the Performance Technology Fred Simpson casted T 4 heads? I thought these might make the T 4 and 1 engines equals regarding head porting/flow potential.
3 liter T 4 with awesome heads would get my interest.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

------------------
Tom Notch
Tom's Old VW Home

Bergman1 · Post by **Bergman1** » Sun May 20, 2001 10:12 pm

James, apology accepted. Hope you will accept mine. BTW, that REALLy was a guy named Erne, I should not have let him have at my machine, totally stupid on my part as it is obvious that area of the froum was already in an uproar over everything else under the sun. Erne is a friend, we have our little VW vs Honda crap, I thought it would be funny to let him post something, however it got out of hand and was not funny. Erne can be pretty offensive sometimes, its just the way he is-he said all VW bus drivers smoke pot at a VW camp out 2 years ago and everyone says to me "if you bring that idiot next year, no ones gonna talk to you" so I did not. Totally stupid to let him post. Sorry again,sincerely. Ive read your other posts on the other froum, also think youre cool and resopect your knowledge and enthusiasm. Take care.

jmillheiser · Post by **jmillheiser** » Sun May 20, 2001 10:55 pm

Hey Jake i saw your story in VWT those are some nice heads.. when you mention the type1 exhaust does that mean that the ports are in the T1 location(i.e. could you use T1 heater boxes, exhausts, etc.)?

from what ive read off of the type4um if all you want is speed on the strip the type1 is for you. if you want a good street motor that will last a long time go type4

James2 · Post by **James2** » Sun May 20, 2001 10:59 pm

Cool, us VW guys should really stick together. I think you and jake need to put password protection on your computers

.

Anyway, I have a split personallity and that's my excuse.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Bergman1:
James, apology accepted. Hope you will accept mine. BTW, that REALLy was a guy named Erne, I should not have let him have at my machine, totally stupid on my part as it is obvious that area of the froum was already in an uproar over everything else under the sun. Erne is a friend, we have our little VW vs Honda crap, I thought it would be funny to let him post something, however it got out of hand and was not funny. Erne can be pretty offensive sometimes, its just the way he is-he said all VW bus drivers smoke pot at a VW camp out 2 years ago and everyone says to me "if you bring that idiot next year, no ones gonna talk to you" so I did not. Totally stupid to let him post. Sorry again,sincerely. Ive read your other posts on the other froum, also think youre cool and resopect your knowledge and enthusiasm. Take care.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[This message has been edited by James2 (edited 05-21-2001).]

dan · Post by **dan** » Sun May 20, 2001 11:22 pm

>>>forged counterweighted crank. The fact that the rotating mass is heavier, is not the main factor with the type 4 not being a drag machine, the resistant exhaust flow is the major contributor.<<<

thank you jake... so it would be a head design issue, then... i believe it was fred simpson who told me it was that, and also the head cracking issues, were why he's working on his own type 4 head.

i can't tell you how many horror stories i've heard from very knowledgable industry people regarding type 4 heads; but you know the score.

that is the reason i'm so totally down on the type 4 platform, but it is good to hear that you have had success with re-welding and using smaller spark plugs in the 2.0 heads... that is the acid test... people who want to get into type 4's always seem to get blinded by the idea of large displacement

but we know that it's the heads that make the power in an engine.

btw, adrian did the same weld/spark plug thing on the type 1 heads i'm running on the turbo street car... the p.o. had cross-threaded a spark plug, which ended up cracking a head.

i had a choice between getting 044's or reworking the stock heads, for the same amount of money, and i chose the latter because of the unusual tapered chevy-type single springs... they are huge on top, but use the stock spring pocket on the head... the rockers are clearanced for the springs... i have my doubts, but time will tell if it was the right decision.

these aftermarket type 4 head manufacturers will need to bring their replacement parts in for a reasonable amount of money... i wonder what those remmele(?) heads are gonna go for.

dan
oceanstreetvideo.com

dan · Post by **dan** » Sun May 20, 2001 11:30 pm

>>>this board. I lost my temper because some things were implied and said about a VERY nice person, who deserves alot more respect then they were getting.<<<

you weren't the only one who tipped over the apple cart

i'm sorry that i shot my mouth off so bad.

anybody who wants to kick my butt in sacramento next week will have to stand in line... right behind those high compression fanatics on the clf!

dan
oceanstreetvideo.com

Matt Harris · Post by **Matt Harris** » Mon May 21, 2001 12:42 am

I'm first in line

I'll introduce myself next weekend if I make it up (lord willing I do). I need a passenger though!!! 7 hours is a long way to drive in a bug by yourself.

------------------
Matt Harris
78 x 90.5
2007cc
1971 Super

Steve Arndt · Post by **Steve Arndt** » Mon May 21, 2001 9:08 am

Matt H., I am driving down from Boise. That is a lot further away than Lakewood

I'll try to find you and say hi Dan. I don't even want to kick your butt

It was over two years ago that I started on my Type IV parts collection journey to build the ultimate street engine. Fred had just build the first prototype frankenstein head. I heard it was going to be a two year wait so I decided to just go for heavily reworked stock heads. Two years has come and gone and they are not for sale yet. His T1 supercase took the more important position. I think he is going to restart work on the Frankhead when the supercase is ironed out. I know I will buy a set from Fred or Remmele once the time comes.

Replacement parts should not be a problem. Exhaust will be plain T1 possibly modified a bit for the extra engine length. I am not exactly sure on what valve train is used, but it will be a combination of commonly available T1 and T4 parts so there should be no problems.

My 2599 should put out close to 200 horsepower and be reliable enough to drive on the Berg cruise or any shows. I'll step up to some 50x42 T1 dual plug heads when that isn't enough go power.

Steve Arndt