Troubleshooting 101

[slayer61]

Let me start by saying that I have been an electrician my whole adult life. Not some schlep working in tract houses, but an honest-to-god industrial electrician working in oil refineries, power plants, explosive vapors, high voltages and etc. I KNOW my way around motor controls and like to think I KNOW what I'm doing.

Last week after picking up my buggy from a newly installed transaxle, I was ready for a "shake down" drive to witness the new trans in person. I turned the key and....... click. Dammit. No worries. The battery is fresh (< 1 year old) and has been on the battery tender since I got it.

Hello RockAuto? Please send me a new 12 volt Bosch starter for my 1968 VW type I

This choice made sense because it was a 2nd hand starter that was purchased cheep for use as a core if needed. It was the only part that wasn't NEW in the start/ignition system.

Just like clockwork, the starter shows up, is quickly installed, and..... click

I remove the new starter and bench test it... wizzz.... wizzz wizzz... it works just like it is supposed to

Could the motor be tied up somehow? No. The motor turns over by hand... dammit... No... I mean whooray! my motor's not tied up!

So, at work all week, I was wondering what could be causing my "no start" condition. It's not a complicated system. voltage originates at the battery, goes up to the ignition switch and returns to the starter motor solenoid!!!

Buying a new ignition switch made sense. Maybe the cheapo empi ignition switch has shat the bed?

No sir. Still just ... click FARK! Arghhh

Can't you just hear Mrs. slayer's voice

You should check every electrical connection!

Never in my wildest dreams FFS!!

20230511_180320.jpg

Yes! A failed battery cable! All the parts were getting their voltage at the correct time EXCEPT the starter MOTOR!!!!

When the fart fan in the bathroom quits working you don't go looking at the mains, right?
When all else fails, listen to your wife!

[Ol'fogasaurus]

I've had that cable thing and other similar things happen before too; very frustrating. Quality of things seem to be getting worse now days.

I went out to drive my low milage truck the other day and no response to any electrical part of the truck when the key was turned on. I tried to jump start it and... nothing. I finally went up to the car dealership I bought it from and talked to them and their guess was a "dead battery cell". I paid a couple billion dollars for a new battery (it was cheaper there than at the parts houses), installed it and it did start and run properly, and everything is still working properly after a couple of weeks.

I was a mechanic (snicker ) back in the early "60's" and had heard of "dead cell" problems but never heard about the not being able to jump start the vehicle. The three-year-old truck only has 20000 miles on it as it sits a lot (I'm retired) and we had bought a hybrid for a couple of reasons which gets most of the low milage trips my wife has to take each day. It is very interesting to drive it then get into the truck and try to drive it the same way .

Your toy is looking good, keep up the good work.

Lee

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Went into the dealership today and had a long talk with them.

One of the things I was concerned about was that the second battery (the first was replaced about 2 months ago because of a dead cell) had a dead cell again. What I was afraid of it is looking like it is the the same problem.

We got a new hybrid car that is driven most of the time as it does use way less gas than a normal car or truck would, that is understood. The problem vehicle now sits behind a fence due to people trying to break into it.

One of the other things is that is now common with newer vehicles is that the vehicle has a constant contact with the factory (best term I could come up with) on what milage driven (for example) so when maintenance is needed. If the vehicle sits a long time without being driven, this seemingly continuous contact can draw down on the battery and eventually damage it (to make a long conversation short). That is one of the things I suspected but it was verified today.

I don't think this is not a common thing with the companies that are making the vehicles. The advice I was given was to get out in it at least weekly or 2 weeks' time period at the most. This should keep the power in the battery up enough to keep the dam(n)age away or at least move the drawdown out some.

For what it is worth.

Lee

[Ol'fogasaurus]

For what it is worth the company we got the vehicle from brought a new battery and after testing the electrical system nothing showed up wrong. the battery was 2 months old, and the dead cell problem was back. They did do a checkout of the electrical memory and found mostly nothing and that included its history in the vehicle.

What is going on they think is that I am not starting the vehicle enough for the charging needed due to the car sending information to the company (or the maker) on milage and other things dealing with the use of the vehicle.

It is (currently)thought that giving it a running nudge once a week or two might help as the info sent may be the problem of drawing the batter to a stripped out/dead situation.

Again, for what it is worth.

Lee

[Ol'fogasaurus]

What I did find out that on the 3 year old truck there is something like a constant contact for some aftermarket care we bought when we bought the car. . The car electrical system regularly contacts the company giving milage and other things that they (supposedly) do for me (oil change and tire rotation and a general over all regular maintenance inspection). Since I don't drive it as often as we did before we bought the hybrid the contact with the company drained the battery, to the point where it developed a dead cell and had to be replaced... again.

They won't charge or you can't put a jumper on them to get the vehicle to turnover or start. Be careful with new technology.

This is for those of you who get into a similar situation as I did. As I said, when I was supposedly a mechanic back in the mid 60's I had heard of batteries getting dead cells but never saw one. Worn out batteries but never a dead cell battery.

Lee

[Ol'fogasaurus]

What I also found out that the positive battery post connection was made so that more than one hot lead connected to it, they had some kind of circuit breaker built in but this system allowed parts of the electric system to continue operating to send and receive notations. This was the bad part of the situation.

I had something like this happen many years ago so on the cars I built and especially the blue dune buggy I added a breaker switch from the hot post of the battery to the ignition switch rest of the wiring.

4th of July 2004 008.jpg

Not the best of pictures but is gives an idea of what I was talking about. Again, this is a minimal wiring system for off-road only use.

Lee