Imohr front suspension install impressions

[Ol'fogasaurus]

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This is the picture of the bottom of the pan that I was looking for; it shows the 1" square tube in the body mount channel of the pan. Again, I would go with a 1" X 2" rectangular tube at a minimum. The square tube took a set when we were fitting the seat locations w/o the body lift being bolted to the pan's floor channel.

Lee

[hoghead]

0010.JPG

This is the picture of the bottom of the pan that I was looking for; it shows the 1" square tube in the body mount channel of the pan. Again, I would go with a 1" X 2" rectangular tube at a minimum. The square tube took a set when we were fitting the seat locations w/o the body lift being bolted to the pan's floor channel.

Lee

I too am thinking of a sub-frame sitting in the pan channel similar to yours, but with a x brace across the centre? The centre of the X will need to be open with a bridge plate to allow passage of the Suby cooling piping

Once the rear firewall is moved, and an x-brace installed at that firewall, I am thinking to tie it, and the pan sub-frame to the chassis rear as you suggest. The frame head remains VW, but the bottom plate is now 5mm with formed channels, and bolted into the Imhor IFS both at the lower a-arm and 2 piece front plate

The Authorities here frown on a roll cage in a street car, and I have to be very careful not to "modify" the frame/pan

[Ol'fogasaurus]

I too am thinking of a sub-frame sitting in the pan channel similar to yours, but with a x brace across the centre? The centre of the X will need to be open with a bridge plate to allow passage of the Suby cooling piping

Once the rear firewall is moved, and an x-brace installed at that firewall, I am thinking to tie it, and the pan sub-frame to the chassis rear as you suggest. The frame head remains VW, but the bottom plate is now 5mm with formed channels, and bolted into the Imhor IFS both at the lower a-arm and 2 piece front plate

The Authorities here frown on a roll cage in a street car, and I have to be very careful not to "modify" the frame/pan
[/quote]
The cage thing is interesting to say the least but I think they must take it as a warning that something is going to happen.

What can you get away with?

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This is a body lift I built to add strength to the pan as I have a FG body to sit on it which has no real strength and no roof for working with all kinds of loading. Can you get away with something like this?

The stock seat rails does give some strength to the pan but even combined with the rear seat foot area and the formed stiffening areas in the front when you get too heavy with HP you are starting to push things a bit.

The Imhor IFS does look interesting but again, what are the limitations as to what you can do and get away with? Be sure that the Imhor/the frame head have strong connection to the pan and maybe the firewall too to protect the frame head from torqueing and the possible dam(n)age from that.

Things where I live are getting pretty tight as you could be required to go through an inspection and they can/could be pretty rough on someone. They're not engineers but....

Lee

[hoghead]

I built a similar sub-frame for my topless Speedster that was bonded into the fiberglass body, then bolted to the stockish VW pan. As built, differs a bit from the drawing, but you get the idea.....
Current rules do not allow this as the "frame" was modified by shortening to fit the body

The Bugaru plan "should" comply with the Cretins at Motor Vehicles: IE a perimeter sub-frame bolted to the stock Beetle pan/body. I will try and get away with welding the perimeter sub-frame connection to the torsion tube and 5mm bottom plate at the frame head. I might bond the perimeter sub-frame into the channel so that it appears bolted, but really is not - they will not like it welded

I will be able to get away with a hoop under the dash and a cross bar at the rear seat, both connected to the heater channel

Frame head bottom plate replacement is common here due to rot, and the unavailability of stock replacement parts. All I have done is make it 5mm with formed channels, so that should pass. The Napoleon hat is internally braced so as to appear stock

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Well, that is one way to do it. What I was thinking about was simpler but probably not as strong as I was dealing with your saying that the authorities didn't like roll cages and how they "looked" (looked is my word for "observe") at things. I was going to work on the underside of the pan but what you have here, in ways, is what amounts to just short of a partial cage.

If you want I will kind of modify the pix I sent by adding some lines then add some discussion.

Lee

[Ol'fogasaurus]

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A quick sketch of what I was thinking:

The green is 1 X 3 rectangular tube. It would show about 2" below the floor. I would connect this tube using 1 X 2 rectangular tube (I forgot to change color).

The red tube is 1 X 2 or 1 X 3 tube to support the frame head and not to disturb the structural bottom of the base of the pan. 1A thick wall'd 1/2 X 3 would be stronger for sure but then you are into either the pan floor or the structural beading on the center of the pan which I don't think is a good idea.

The blue is a shear plate with flanges at the ends and down the sides. It is to keep the red tubes in line and help stop any flexing or twisting of the long straight run. For additional strength either beading (like in the bottom of the pan's main support) or flanged holes for strength and allowing moisture to escape.

Instead of tube maybe "C" section steel would work too. https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/amer ... _1321.html

Again, this is to be more of a "hidden design" than what your idea is.

Lee

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Some more info:

The idea I posted is somewhat like, but not exact, to the "X-frame" that GM did in '58 and continued on when they went away from the ladder style of frame to unibody. They did have problems with the "X" design but, in this case, I made the center section longer and the tubes not as close together and the outboard structure so... in ways, the VW pan now would be closer to a floor in many ways than a pan (frame ?) is itself.

On the use of the flanging of holes: this is a strength thing for flats panels, in this case a "shear plate" with the addition to the flanges at the ends and the sides. One of the rules with holes, and this includes bolt holes, is that the minimum distance apart is 2 1/2 diameters. If you use large holes then this is simple and fairly strong but to get the greatest strength would be three row of them and that the middle line of holes is staggered.

Mark the first hole then, using a compass set at 2 1/2 diameters mark an arc that is a little more than 45° top to side. This gives you the next hole in line. From that hole center do an arc that is 180° for the next hole and so on. There will be a cross of the arcs above the first set and the area where the lines cross indicate the centers of the next line of holes; his gives you an off-set of holes closing out blank paths. Repeat for the third line and so on.

The reason for this is if you ran the hole patterns straight horizontally and vertically you would have two empty, potentially weak, corridors (vertical and horizontal) where bends could occur. The staggering of the holes blocks those lines of weakness. The flanges will also help but in long runs where the flanges are a long distance apart this does help with strength.

Beading of the area does help also so the choice us up to the user. I have done the flanging (design) with slots also.

I hope this is clear.

Lee

[maurice]

Update: front end feels great so far. Rear end im still battling for grip. Turns out I had a bunch of toe out, and it made the car sketchy. I do feel like it would have slaughtered in autocross.

Still loving the turning radius around down, and the rack feels good.

Haven’t gone too fast since I’m worried about my ass sliding out because of a bump. I’ll find a big empty parking lot and make the girlfriend film what my suspension looks like. But so far so good.

[Evil_Fiz]

Any update on performance?
I originally considered the Mendeola setup but abandoned it due to a lack of performance Data. The iMohr setup appears to have a decent install-base in Brazil and this thread provides a positive spin on the product. I am now strongly considering the imohr front and rear A-Arm offerings.

Cheers,
Emil

[maurice]

I killed my engine yet again (twice since my last post), and haven’t had a lot of time to get the new one setup with megasquirt. Hopefully in the next month I can get it running.

When it was running, it seemed decent. I had to make my own sway bar mounts, but I think you can get some with the a arms now.

[hoghead]

Finally got around to making a mount for the sway bar.

I bought some brackets that would technically work for a removable setup, but they ended up being in the way of the steering. So tonight I welded a plate to the suspension. My welds didn’t turn out great, but they should work fine. I think I may have felt the hair falling out from stress while welding it.

The wall thickness of the a arms is 2mm btw, if anyone is going to do the same.

Besides a brake bleed and my steering shaft/assembly, I’m almost ready to hit the road!

Any more pics on the sway bar?
Any dimensions on the bar?

Naturally Imhor did not have this available when I ordered mine in RHD and I want to add it now

[maurice]

Finally got around to making a mount for the sway bar.

I bought some brackets that would technically work for a removable setup, but they ended up being in the way of the steering. So tonight I welded a plate to the suspension. My welds didn’t turn out great, but they should work fine. I think I may have felt the hair falling out from stress while welding it.

The wall thickness of the a arms is 2mm btw, if anyone is going to do the same.

Besides a brake bleed and my steering shaft/assembly, I’m almost ready to hit the road!

Any more pics on the sway bar?
Any dimensions on the bar?

Naturally Imhor did not have this available when I ordered mine in RHD and I want to add it now

Super late reply, The sway bar is a 3/4” one from cb performance. I think I used generic bushings that bolted up to the front. I welded brackets for them. Shoot me an email and I’m happy to show some pictures [email protected]

[maurice]

Update:
Took my car to an autocross school. This would be my third time autocrossing. I had a failure where the upper ball joint attaches to the spindle assembly. One of the welds partially failed and it bent the steel supporting it, causing my wheel to positive camber greatly.

It’s the weekend so I haven’t heard back from imohr. I’ll be getting a set of spindles from cb performance, unless someone has a recommendation.