2 seat Sandrail chassis builders

[Txwheeler]

So I'm new to vw world but I've always had 4 wheelers, jeeps, etc I was looking around for a decent production rolling chassis is there anyone that makes a decent production rolling chassis without going the alumicraft or 6 digit price tag route or is there thread a for chassis I didn't see?

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Txwheeler, not trying to be a smart A$$ but there are a fair amount of chassis builders out there with chassis fully built or in kit form but the first question that arises "how much of a rail and what will it's use be?" You might need that decision before you do a search for a chassis.

Then comes the next decisions: street only use, street or Autocross just to name a couple of uses before you head to off-road, sand use which are just a few of the styles of use for a start.

Swing axle (limited travel) rear OK or do you want a stock IRS or go for a long travel IRS. The front suspension questions might be is a BJ is ok or do you want more travel potential such as a King and Link-pin (K&L) might be able to give or a long travel IFS front suspension?

Then comes engine choice and trans choice.

Again, not trying to be silly but these decisions cost money and starting with the wrong choice can cause the cost to rise later on.

Lee

[Txwheeler]

IRS beam car something for the desert or if I ever get out to some sand dunes probably not street legal right off the bat vw drivetrain but be able to swap a ecotec into later everything I've come across is either way to expensive full long travel ls motor etc or really low quality hrew tubing shorter woods style buggy I know chenowth is no more but is there anyone around that's close to something like a 4lwd as far as qaulity and price range

[Ol'fogasaurus]

IRS beam car something for the desert or if I ever get out to some sand dunes probably not street legal right off the bat vw drivetrain but be able to swap a ecotec into later everything I've come across is either way to expensive full long travel ls motor etc or really low quality hrew tubing shorter woods style buggy I know chenowth is no more but is there anyone around that's close to something like a 4lwd as far as qaulity and price range

It sound like you have hit all the lower goodies so far.

Off-road (especially sand builds) and street legal, in my opinion s/b considered in the original build as it can be harder to retrofit later on. I would also look into wheel base as there are times and places for longer or shorter wheel basis. I'm more familiar with sand than what Leather, CWB (Baja) and a several others are into but things seem to be changing a lot lately.

When doing a search you need to ask the right question (and the right question is important to get a good search) w/o getting confused or at least I did.

ACME/Barrienbuggy have been around for a long time: https://berrienbuggy.com/ Knock down kits start as low as $305 I think they are quality but I don't know if I have ever been around one... at least a new one for a long time.

Lee

[Leatherneck]

TxWheeler, I don’t want to assume you live in Texas. The use of the buggy makes a big difference. I used to live in AR and the buggy that worked there didn’t work in the desert, well not as good as it should of. We would love to help you build a buggy.

[chuckput]

If you are wanting to keep your build budget low, you might want to consider purchasing a used buggy as your starting point. Just a quick search of race-dezrt.com uncovered this:

https://classifieds.race-dezert.com/FOR ... -VW-166009

[Ol'fogasaurus]

If you are wanting to keep your build budget low, you might want to consider purchasing a used buggy as your starting point. Just a quick search of race-dezrt.com uncovered this:

https://classifieds.race-dezert.com/FOR ... -VW-166009

Chuckput, while the idea is a good idea but in reality, unless you know what you are looking at (a "first time" starter rail) or for, the idea may not be that good (no offence meant). I have mentioned that when we were using the dune's campgrounds I'd see some rails come in that were obviously (even to me when I was just getting into the sand toys) used (recycled) that someone had just bought. A short time later they get towed back into camp as they either failed or the driver had a "brain fart" and destroyed the rail while having fun (usually jumping dunes) the rail was not set up for. A quick look doesn't always spot things but when things fail you then can see the flaws. I also have seen them twisted so the front end barely touched the ground on one side.

I have seen rails for sale, disappear from the "for sale" sites then to show up a while later looking visually worse than it did before. The one I almost bought was bought by someone I knew and he ended up having problems with it because the build was not finished (no truss/Kaffer bar in this case).

But I have also seen some good, honest deals out there. Be careful of the high priced ones too. Some people think they can hide flaws by jacking the price up so that others will think that there has been a lot of money thrown at it. The prices of now days are really higher, often more than the value of the toy really is.

Also remember that one often throws additional money at a new rail updating it to themselves.

If you know someone who really knows "rails" take them with you and listen to what they have to say.

Lee

[Txwheeler]

Well I have a jeep that I can wheel around here (yes Texas) so I was looking at one for the few times I can make it out to the desert just to have something that could zip around and there's some smaller dunes I hear in Oklahoma so not really looking to use it in the woods and mud. The more I look though its hard to justify a new build when you get a complete used running sandrail for the price of a new motor build especially when it wouldn't see that much use. So something like the above sandrail was about what I was thinking I'm still doing my research and learning about what key parts to look for on a used buggy or to focus the budget on doing a new build so and a rail like the one above would be equal to or greater than a new stockish sxs in the dunes I understand in the woods and mud the rail wouldn't even come close just trying to find a cheaper alternative to some of the new sxs are getting into the same price range as a new jeep. Thanks for all the info and putting up with the newbie questions like I was saying vw world is totally new to me.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Yeah, the SXS (side by sides) are getting quite powerful, popular, expensive and damaged.

I just did a quick search on Craig's List and found nothing in "cars and trucks" but I did find things in UTV/ATVs. Using dune buggy, not much but "Sandrail" and "Sand rail" searches I did get a few hits. Its sure not like "the old days" anymore.

The cheapest was an old style long back in the $4500 to $5000 range that was VW powered; the rest were more highfaluting styles that drifted up into the $19,000 range as a more top of the line kind of rigs. Kind of going along with the prices of SXSs.

If, after doing all your research and you still are looking at the tube style of buggy we still are here for you. Don't be afraid to ask questions either as you never know when a seemingly inconspicuous question will help.

Lee

[Leatherneck]

Here is the dunes we went to in Little Sahara in OK

https://youtu.be/sFdlyxALy48

[CentralWAbaja]

Here is the dunes we went to in Little Sahara in OK

https://youtu.be/sFdlyxALy48

That was good stuff right there.

When I first read this thread my immediate thought was to tell Txwheeler to find an already built rail with some parts on it. Something like a Chenowith 4lW2 that Chuckpot posted. $7500 would not even cover the cost of the parts in that one. if the motor is legit $7500 would not cover the cost of the motor. That's a solid proven chassis design that has been around forever. Yes one would need to check it out solidly.

Or a guy could set out to build a mild car like that from scratch, next thing you know 7 years of your life are gone and so is.....well...a lot more then $7500 LOL

[Leatherneck]

We had a good time there for sure.

It’s tough, trying to figure out which route to take. Is there anybody to ride with out there?

[chuckput]

Or a guy could set out to build a mild car like that from scratch, next thing you know 7 years of your life are gone and so is.....well...a lot more then $7500 LOL

There is a lot of truth and wisdom in that statement right there!

[Txwheeler]

Yeah I've looked around over the weekend and I'm having a hard time trying to justify a new build If I did spend that kind of money I definitely don't want to wait a few years to be able to enjoy it.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

IRS beam car something for the desert or if I ever get out to some sand dunes probably not street legal right off the bat vw drivetrain but be able to swap a ecotec into later everything I've come across is either way to expensive full long travel ls motor etc or really low quality hrew tubing shorter woods style buggy I know chenowth is no more but is there anyone around that's close to something like a 4lwd as far as qaulity and price range

I think I mentioned that I was watch the 4wheeler show on TV the other morning when Ian (the builder on the show) made a interesting point: He was converting a 900 series of RZR to something more like the 1000 series of RZR (longer wheel base) when he said that the longer wheel base was better for climbing hills (Ian is more of a "rock crawler" style of off-roader) than the shorter wheel base 900 series. I knew that there were a lot of reasons for longer wheel base but that was not one... it does make a certain amount of sense though.

Leather (I think) and especially CWB (I met CWB on the Oregon Dunes years ago and he dropped by my house and gave me some VW part several years later) are more aggressive style of off-roaders than I am so they can speak to that better than I can. Their style of buggy is a lot different than my style of buggy (or rail which I can't drive or ride in w/o "feeding the fish"). As you go from a "cruiser" style of driving (like I am) to the more aggressive style of driving changes your build in many ways... sometimes a lot.

Where I ride (in the softer beach sand) than what you would get if you were at the Imperial sand dunes (I was there to see it once in person but did not ride). The wheel base recommendations for where I ride starts at 80'" (typical for a shortened VW pan wheelbase glass bodied buggy like my blue buggy but not so much for a tube rail to about 102-ish (+ or - that is).

"Sand cars": the wheel base is more in the mid-120s where the suspension travel is ~(the mathematical symbol for roughly or approximately) 26" and above. Rails flood the dimension in-between and they flood the beefiness of the build in-between also.

Just a couple of reasons for off-roaders to change builds rather than modify a lot (which can and does happen too).

I hope this helps some.

Lee

Correction: I kind of overstated the wheel base thing on the soft sand. While I have seen some really short wheel base rails the more normal range runs from ~95" to the 102"/103" wheel base. Glass buggies run from ~80" to ~95" (or stock VW pan like my black one is).

One of the reasons for the shorter wheel base is that other than dodging others on the ocean beach the sand there has a lot of trees with trails running through them; hence the tighter the bend in the trails either you have a shorter wheel base, use the turning brakes or spin the rear tires (usually not a good idea either) when dodging toys coming in the trail from the opposite direction.

While dodging the quads was bad the SXSs are much worse as the driver's go so fast, even in the tight situations. I think I heard that RZR body panel sales is doing quite good there (also make sure that you have the mandatory off-road insurance).