type 4 to type 1 engine

Lee Erickson · Post by **Lee Erickson** » Fri Oct 05, 2001 1:16 pm

it can be done. i just bought a 73 with a type 1 engine, seems to run fine (2 400+ mile drives), BUT whoever did the swap did not use a rear engine mount or any engine to body tin. i'm very uncomfortable with this, would prefer proper mount, and believe i've seen a conversion mount that bolts over the type 1 oil pump and to the type 2 engine carrier. any idea where to find one of these converson mounts? please email [email protected] or post here and i'll check back. thanks very much.

Bob Ingman · Post by **Bob Ingman** » Fri Oct 05, 2001 2:23 pm

Lee this is a very common part. Almost every VW parts supplier will carry it. Offroad suppliers are also prone to stock this item because it is sometimes also used as a means to attach a skid plate. Aircooled.net should stock it. If not I know this item is in both Larrys Off Road and Chirco catalog. Use the Aircooled Internet Yellow Pages to locate.
You`ll need the appropriate rear hanger with it.
As far as the tin goes most guys fabricate from a combination of the two tins. Years ago I had a 72 panel van from Mexico that come with the upright 1600 engine(as it did in most of the world outside the US). The factory tin for that application is the perfect answer. It is huge to accomodate the larger engine opening. I wish I had saved it to mold from but I hear recently that someone in florida is doing it.
Good Luck.Bob

[This message has been edited by Bob Ingman (edited 10-05-2001).]

Bob Ingman · Post by **Bob Ingman** » Tue Oct 23, 2001 8:06 pm

For anyone wishing to install a 71-earlier upright engine into a 72- later van body this is the kit I mentioned in an earlier post. Good Luck. Bob www.creativecarcraft.com/notforbug.htm

[This message has been edited by Bob Ingman (edited 10-23-2001).]

Zen · Post by **Zen** » Wed Oct 24, 2001 10:13 pm

Hi Lee. I've also got a 73 bus that's been converted to a type 1 engine.

I first bought the bus about 5 years ago. It had the original 1700 engine, but it had dropped a valve and was trashed. I decided I didn't have the time or money to mess with it so I sold it to a friend of mine.

He fabricated a rear hanger, did some modification to the engine bay . . . I don't remember exactly what, but it seems like he cut something out of it, then fabricated some pieces of tin with a heavy rubber flap rivited to it that sealed off to the type 1 tin. The engine he installed had the universal case, so the rear hanger bolted straight to the engine. After he got it on the road he decided he couldn't afford insurance on it and sold it.

I bought it back a few months ago. The guy I bought it from this time had been using it for a daily driver for about 4 years. He blew the engine (ran it without a fan belt) and had built another engine and installed in it. His type 1 engine had the oil pump mounted bracket you are talking about . . . I really didn't like the looks of it. It looks like it would put too much stress on the oil pump studs. So, I'm building a 1600 single port with a universal case to drop in it.

Any chance your going to FL Bug Jam? I'm planning on driving this bus down. (700+ miles on the interstate in 1600 SP powered 73 bus should be tons of fun!) If your going to be there you could take a look at the rear hanger and tin my friend fabricated. It shouldn't be too hard to duplicate.

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Thu Oct 25, 2001 12:22 am

The type I engine will work into a later bus, I see alot of people do it.....It reminds me of someone putting a 36 HP engine in a Superbeetle, why? The type IV cost more money to build, but it is correct, and will last and will outperform the type I by all aspects in the Bus.

While alot of us are installing type IV engines in our beetles, bus folks are swapping....Well that just makes core type IVs easier to find...Thanks, LOL

------------------
Jake Raby
Raby's Aircooled Technology
www.aircooledtechnology.com

LeeE · Post by **LeeE** » Thu Oct 25, 2001 12:28 am

Thank you, Bob. I really appreciate your help and advice. I decided to keep the Type 1 engine (for now), since it's already in and runs OK, maybe I'll find a Type IV someday. The only reason I want the Type IV is because I've had both before(69 and 72 buses), and the IV is much smoother/faster. I live in Florida, 70 mph max is too slow for highways, I'm a rolling roadblock. Maybe I'll get one of those SMV tractor triangles to hang on the back, already have '0 to 60 in 5 minutes' sticker.

tomt · Post by **tomt** » Thu Oct 25, 2001 7:14 am

My '73 bus has a '79 code GE 2 liter type 4 engine with dual Dell'Ortos. I actually bought the bus to get the engine, then discovered the bus wasn't as bad as I had thought. I haven't had it past 75mph, but that is a driver limitation - not the engine. (It is a high roof Adventurer and crosswinds are quite exciting) It feels like it would probably go scary fast.

LeeE · Post by **LeeE** » Thu Oct 25, 2001 10:29 am

My '69 bus with a 1600 dual port, rebuilt by me,would cruise at 68 and max at about 75 mph on the freeway, which was Ok, just had to be an alert driver and plan passes and hills. I didn't like all drum brakes, though. Not much go and not much stop. My '72 was very slow when I bought it. When I rebuilt it, I discovered there were no cam lobes left, no wonder it was slow. After the rebuild, lots of power and great brakes. I ran it way up past 90mph (once) just to see how fast it would go, and it would cruise happily at 80. This '73 was an eBay purchase, and I was surprised and not real happy when I opened the hatch and found a Type 1 single port living in there. It runs fine, and I have the proper mounts now, so I'm going to use it until I can find/afford a TypeIV. So I'm partway there, got great brakes but so-so power, feel like I'm backing up on the freeway.

Bob Ingman · Post by **Bob Ingman** » Thu Oct 25, 2001 1:39 pm

This is a very good example of a properly converted bus.
Iam not saying everyone go pull your type 4s and install an upright. Merely an example of the fact that it can be done and done properly if wanted for whatever reason. If you click on the engine compartment phot to enlarge you might notice two things that I would have liked to see done differently. The first is the type one muffler. To be done completely the entire exhaust and heater boxes should be changed. Type one and two use different heater boxes after 67.
Secondly I would have liked to see a type two air cleaner setup installed. These are nit pickin notions of mine personally. Overall the job is well done. Good Luck. Bob www.kirkwoodlodge.com/72Bus/index.html

[This message has been edited by Bob Ingman (edited 10-25-2001).]

LeeE · Post by **LeeE** » Fri Nov 09, 2001 4:06 am

OK, what do I do now? I have a "73 bus, with a Type 1 single port. I have the rear engine carrier, bent metal with two vertical engine mount holes. I bought some conversion engine mounts from Bus Boys, but they don't look like they mount anywhere on the engine or on the carrier. So I bought a Bugpack mount that mounts over the oil pump, but it doesn't seem to attach to the carrier either. There are no instructions or diagrams with any of these parts.
What am I missing? Am I doing something wrong, or just not seeing something obvious?
Any help and advice will be more than welcome.
Thanks.

LeeE · Post by **LeeE** » Tue Nov 13, 2001 7:58 am

Hi
Which throw-out bearing should be used in a Type 1 to Type 4 swap? Is there a difference between T/O bearings from '71, when buses used the Type 1, and '72 when they switched to Type 4? (or '73?)
Mine just started making noise, and it looks like it will be easier to attach the engine carrier with the engine out anyway, so I'll probably pull it. Before I buy a new bearing, I just wondered if anyone had some more helpful advice.
Thanks.

Pillow · Post by **Pillow** » Tue Nov 13, 2001 9:55 am

Great ad Bob and thanks for sharing.

But the seller asking $5000 for a '72 w/ T1 power and some rust is smoking crack!

My $.02

------------------
Adrian Pillow
'66 VW Westfalia - "Biscuit"
'79 Porsche 911 SC - "Cochise"

Brutus · Post by **Brutus** » Tue Nov 13, 2001 10:29 am

Best (only) reason I can think of putting a Type I in the back of a bus - everyone has one laying around! We threw one in the back of a friends '72 or '73, just to get it one the road and cause I had a 1500 sp, that was taken out of a car before it went to the junk yard. Free + $15 mount was cheaper than a used Type IV!

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'69 Baja, '68 Bus, missing my '59 Double door

Bob Ingman · Post by **Bob Ingman** » Tue Nov 13, 2001 11:54 pm

Lee, the throw out bearing is not a problem as long as they match. In other words if you have a guided TOB then it is a straight ahead exchange.You just have to match the pressure plate to the TOB no matter which type you use.
And Brutus I have to agree with you . Convience is the primary reason for this swap
I once had a guy bring a fastback into my shop to show me his conversion. When I opened the rear bonet there was a 40horse engine. He was so proud of it too. A good example of being convenient but not better. Good Luck. Bob

[This message has been edited by Bob Ingman (edited 11-13-2001).]

LeeE · Post by **LeeE** » Wed Nov 14, 2001 9:50 am

Thanks again for the advice, Bob. That occurred to me after I had already posted the question. I just wasn't sure if the type 1 T/O fit the type 2 trans.
As for the above comment "everyone has one laying around", I used to be the same way, but not anymore. Oh, for the "good ol' days"!!
Cars and parts are not so easy to find anymore, and they aren't anywhere near as cheap. I used to run across incredible deals that I just couldn't pass up, and had a good selection of spare everything.
I even found a 1600 DP engine laying on the edge of the road once, someone was just throwing it away. I bought a nice 412 for $50, just for the engine, and threw the rest of the car away. I bought a spotless '70 Beetle for $300, one of the nicest cars I ever owned.
Nowadays you have to add a zero or two to those numbers, if you can even find the cars in the first place.
Oh, well..."Nostalgia just ain't what it used to be."
Sorry, got off the topic a little.