Boggled

[Piledriver]

If I do this setup what else is needed to do sequential injection?
Or do I need to go the crank trigger and mini cam sync route?

If you have a valid missing tooth wheel at (EDIT) CAM speed (i.e. in the distributor) speed that is all that is needed to do full sequential, sensor wise.

I've been rolling that way for ages now.

First with a modified Mallory unilite setup with extra slots cut in the optical shutter wheel
then the 009 with the traxxas gas truck steel spur gear and home made hall module. (used off the shelf $6 sensor)

[Chip Birks]

If I do this setup what else is needed to do sequential injection?
Or do I need to go the crank trigger and mini cam sync route?

If you have a valid missing tooth wheel at crank speed that is all that is needed to do full sequential, sensor wise.

I've been rolling that way for ages now.

First with a modified Mallory unilite setup with extra slots cut in the optical shutter wheel
then the 009 with the traxxas gas truck steel spur gear and home made hall module. (used off the shelf $6 sensor)

Pretty sure you meant CAM speed...right?

[Piledriver]

Yep, cam speed, I'll edit that before it becomes more confusing.
That's what happens when you post with fried brain.

It has been supported for a long time on ms2e and always on ms3, on some engines its the default trigger setup, as that's the factory config.

tip:
If anyone wants to do the steel spur gear setup, file a bit of mild steel to fit well in between 2 teeth and jbweld in place, clean up once set (24 hours)
The hall sensor doesn't care as long as it fills the gap well, magnetic field goes right through jbweld...
You could also file a notch between the peaks and use some square stock the same way.

[vwi_dduvall]

Well I sent an Email to the guy who has the add on The Samba but have yet to get a reply.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/ ... id=1735698

Is there any one else aside from Mario who is making something?
Not sure Mario is going to have something soon enough for me to get it back on the road.

This is when you wish you had the facilities to craft your own stuff.

Thanks!

[vwi_dduvall]

OK, ever had one of the moments when you wished you had looked under something and found the source of possibly all your problems?
Well I just had one of those moments. Apparently #2 injector has been leaking up through the power connector and my guess, however much or little, shorting or making poor contact. I figure that this intermittent issue was messing with the readings etc.

Well, I guess now I will have a nice ignition system. I think to start though I am going to just do sequential spark and then move toward the sequential injection mostly because the injection is setup and working, except for the bad injector.

Live and learn

[vincestroud]

Yep, cam speed, I'll edit that before it becomes more confusing.
That's what happens when you post with fried brain.

It has been supported for a long time on ms2e and always on ms3, on some engines its the default trigger setup, as that's the factory config.

tip:
If anyone wants to do the steel spur gear setup, file a bit of mild steel to fit well in between 2 teeth and jbweld in place, clean up once set (24 hours)
The hall sensor doesn't care as long as it fills the gap well, magnetic field goes right through jbweld...
You could also file a notch between the peaks and use some square stock the same way.

Pile,

Can you post some pics of your setup? I have a pile of distributors, and this seems like a great option. For clarification, this setup can do sequential spark/fuel, with no need for a crank trigger?

Thanks,
Vince

[Piledriver]

For clarification, this setup can do sequential spark/fuel, with no need for a crank trigger?

Thanks,
Vince

Yep, one cam speed wheel/sensor is all that's needed for fully sequential operation.

I'll try and finish up/test the new 72-1 setup this weekend and take some pics.
(I think I posted pics of the current 36-2 setup, the "-2" part was due to an oops with welding settings)

[vincestroud]

Yep, one cam speed wheel/sensor is all that's needed for fully sequential operation.

I'll try and finish up/test the new 72-1 setup this weekend and take some pics.
(I think I posted pics of the current 36-2 setup, the "-2" part was due to an oops with welding settings)

Appreciate it. I can't find the pics through a search, although that is likely my own fault. Care to share what sensor you used?

Thanks,
Vince

(PS.. sorry for hijacking the thread)

[Piledriver]

Allegro ats667, gear sensor, has built in magnet, needs a couple caps and a pullup resistor, I used all SMT parts soldered direct to the legs and potted the whole shebang in a short bit of nonmagnetic tubing and filled w/5 min epoxy.

It wants to see a filled missing tooth, rather than a cut out missing tooth, it will see ~garbage with a cut out tooth, and work perfect past 16K shaft RPM with a filled tooth. (has built in AGC circuit the missing tooth apparently jacks with)

I have about 5 minutes work in the next two pics:

Here's the next one about to go together.
(has been on my desk buried for months)
Setup in the car is ~identical, except for a 36 tooth wheel.

I originally bent this up/made this as an "extra" it to fit in the 3/8" tube, so I'll roll with it.
There's a 50v 1uf, .1uf and a 5k pullup resistor on the legs.
(The .1uf could be mistaken for solder splashes on roach crap)

It will work from ~3-30v. and is reverse polarity protected internally.

DIY-ats667-hall-sensor.JPG

And just to show it fits, 32 pitch steel gear is light press fit on 3/8 brass tubing...Haven't "filled" in the missing tooth yet.

72-tooth-in-009.JPG

[vwi_dduvall]

That looks like a crazy amount of teeth
Will be interesting to see your testing data etc.

[vincestroud]

Thanks for the pics and info. I am going to blatantly steal your idea.

[Piledriver]

Thanks for the pics and info. I am going to blatantly steal your idea.

Feel free, that's the idea.

Edited to fix typo.

[vwi_dduvall]

When I first started this tread I was running a 009 distributor,Pertronix Ignitor, MSD6a, and Accel supper coil and was having all sorts of troubles. It was suggested to me that I move to a missing tooth type setup and will admit I was a bit skeptical and wary of spending more $$$ on this thing. In the end decided to go with it and as was informed it certainly made the issues start to stand out. First in starting the setup I noticed that #2 cyl injector was very wet with fuel under the connector cover and seemed to be intermittent (May have been the issue all along) so replaced it. After getting it all rewired and hooked up it was a bit of a rough start in that the cam trigger was 180 out I had known that with the 009 but figured it would be different with the trigger well guess not. After getting that worked out it finally started and ran fairly well but at 2000 to 3000 rpm it would kick out and loose sync and no amount of tweaking the noise filter seemed to help so followed the DIY sites suggestion of adding a 10k-20k resistor it was day and night difference but not enough still had some noise. Well on a drive to Home Depot the generator light came on and suddenly noticed the issue went away on the return it went off and all the problems returned. So I debated should I get a new regulator or replace it with an alternator I opted to go the alternator route as I was tired of the lack of power to run accessories etc. when it was placed in it was smooth as can be, for about 30min, then the alternator died. Had it tested and returned it to get another and so far so good I was even able to tune out the last bit of noise to stop some still random sync loss. All this said I have now driven it for 3 straight days to work and its been a dream even though it still needs some tuning one of which is an lean stumble on quick throttle opening and in the last few days we have had it in the low 30 to teens and getting it to catch and start has been a bit of a problem but do mange to get it going. Any how thanks to all those who have given input it has been a great help.

Thanks much,
Daniel Du Vall

P.S. sorry for such a long post saw no way to keep this short.

[Piledriver]

Cool its working for you now, i know you have been fighting it forever...
No amount of tweaking or tuning will fix broken hardware, even though it may be a band-aid.

Reducing electrical system noise is half the reason i swapped in a late model GM alternator.

Much better voltage stability, ~3X the current capability and its actually slightly smaller.
(that and a lifetime warranty and can get one ~anywhere)

~Trivial to do on a T4 engine with stock cooling, as its a "normal" alternator mount setup.
T3s are a bit limited in choice with the factory setup, but at least there is some choice of modern alternators.

There are some other ways to reduce noise, but see how it works first.
I suspect its OK now.

I'm still doing 80 miles a day most days.