New here. Thanks for having me. Hello and heeeeeelp!

[cwrench]

Hello
A little back ground. I exclusively drove air-cooled from about 1973 until 2000 - a mixture of type I and type II with the last 14 years being a well-traveled '65 bus I drove all over hell and back. When I moved up on a mountain in Montana, the heater in the bus and the single chamber brake cylinder (blew a seal once on flat land) convinced me it was time to park the old girl.

A few months back I ran across a pretty little '72 type I super beetle. Supposedly 800 miles on a rebuild and perfect body. So far so good...

It was running like a little sewing machine when I first got it, but the gas mileage wasn't what I thought it should be. It ran well but pulled what I thought to be vapor lock two or three times at inopportune moments. Following a supposed trick I found on youtube, I sanded down the plastic fuel pump flange a hair, replaced the metal fuel line in the engine compartment with a a straight run of 1/4 inch rubber fuel line backed off a bit from the manifolds and moved the fuel filter to an area front of the firewall underneath the bug.

At the same time I checked the valves (pretty much spot on) replaced the points, condenser, cap and rotor. Ok, I thought - not so. The car is now running incredibly poorly. It idles but when I put it into gear and start to drive, it bucks and pitches and simply can't be driven. Since I both fiddled with the fuel pump/gas lines and the ignition system at the same time I'm uncertain where I left the rails.

I've gone back and double checked the valves, double checked the points (25 on an 8 cylinder scale), rechecked the static timed AE '72 engine to 5 degrees ATDC, double checked the connections between the cap and plugs and the firing order, looked for unplugged vacuum ports and checked the connections at coil, double checked that I'm getting gas through the fuel pump. Still no go.

In the course of that checking this morning it dawned on me that a previous owner had converted from generator to alternator without switching to the alternator specific fuel pump. I don't know if it'll make a difference, but I ordered the alternator fuel pump and two of the shorter drive rods to match and a new fuel pump flange from JBugs this morning. I doubt that's my problem - since it was running well when I bought it, but I did it anyway. The nice feller at JBugs suggested this forum to me and that's how I came to be here.

So while waiting for my new fuel pump, I'll continue to poke around in the engine compartment - but I'm fresh out of new ideas. I'd appreciate any suggestions or advice. I used to have pretty good luck at diagnosis but this has me stumped.

Long-winded intro...
thanx
cwrench

[Marc]

5° ATDC is the correct timing setting for that engine - IF it has the original distributor or a similar one. What's the 10-digit Bosch number stamped into the side of the housing?
0 231 167 070 or 0 231 176 028, for example. These are both "DVDA" units with centrifugal advance plus vacuum advance plus vacuum retard at idle. Suck on the hoses to check for a leaky diaphragm...the retard side in particular is known for this, if it's bad you can get away with leaving it off (plugged at carb) and bumping the initial timing up to 7.5° BTDC to emulate the 1974 "SVDA" distributor.

Be sure that rubber fuel line is grommeted where it passes through the front tin (and check it now & then) so it doesn't get sliced.

The "alternator" fuel pump has a lower pivot pin location and an 8mm shorter pushrod; there are also similar-looking ones with a canted body which retain the high pivot and 108mm pushrod, but they're seldom encountered anymore. There's a pickup strainer in the tank, accessible through a hex-head plug, but they seldom have problems with clogging like the ones in Standards do. A restricted fuel-tank venting system can also cause starvation - if it conks out again, remove the gas cap and listen for the tell-tale whoosh that confirms a vent problem.

Another possibility is that you've got a piece of something (like a sliver from the inside of that rubber hose) that's lodged in the main jet and partially restricting it...

If you can, post a pic of the engine so we can see how the vacuum lines are hooked up.

[Devastator]

Can you put the old ignition parts back in to see if one of the new version is defective? Know anyone with an electric fuel pump you could hook up temporarily?
I would suspect the fuel system since new ignition parts that are defective, usually, don't start or run at all.
Did you try replacing the fuel pump spacer that you sanded down, with an unmodified version?

[cwrench]

Yay. The calvelry has arrived. I appreciate the quick responses.

Marc: The number is, as close as I can make out: 0231170034. Kind of hard to see despite the distributor appearing to be bright and shiny new. I have two or three other ones in a crate, left over from the old days, but I know this one was doing the trick when I bought the bug.

Thanks for the reminder on the grommet. I think I will take it back to a stock configuration (reinstall the metal line) when I have a moment, then experiment with removing the metal line later if I think I need it. Vapor lock is the least of my worries at the moment.

I'll post a photo of the engine compartment soon. Don't know if photos can be uploaded via the forum or if I need photobucket or something. I'm putting in a vegetable garden this week and will post that photo when I can. I have a few questions about some things under the lid and would like the opportunity to ask some questions.

The rest of your questions I'll digest when I have a moment.

------------------

Devastator: The same thought of putting in the old parts occurred to me too. The good part is that after driving a '65 bus for so long, I'm a parts hoarder and have those old parts. The bad part is that I'm a bad organizer. I have a couple of ziplocks with paired points/condenser but am not sure which set came out

It usually takes me several stabs to get the points set right on the money so I haven't messed with them yet, but that option is on the back burner when I get a moment and can figure out which ones came out. I have a new, unaltered, fuel pump flange coming and will try that too.
I don't know anyone with an electronic fuel pump. Am sort of in the middle of glorious nowhere here.

After driving that old bus for so long I figured I kind of knew my way around the block. This is a humbling experience. Thanks for the replies guys.

[Piledriver]

Welcome to the STF!

It's still a Very Good Idea to install a bulkhead fitting as a feedthrough for the metal line through the front sheetmetal.

The sheetmetal likes metal or rubber hoses for a snack now and then: The factory rubber bushing was a bad joke and its demise preceded many roasted vehicles.

There's a good thread in the stickies on "how not to burn down your VW".
It was largely compiled the hard way.

Also note VW redesigned the seat mounts in `73... some folks take them out because they don't like the style.
VW still uses ~that basic design to this day, in fact up to mk3 seats can be made to fit in a 73 with very little swearing/violence required.
They were redesigned because of broken necks.
(The designs used through 72 tend to rip out even in relatively modest rear impacts, the front seat passengers go head first into the rear window)
VWs fix for the earlier vehicles involved Ubolts through the floor and load spreader plates under the pan, of course the seats are no longer as easily adjustable, but you won't die.

I'm betting on excess fuel pressure. Get a new phenolic pump base or a good electric pump.
(They do exist)

[Slow 1200]

checked the static timed AE '72 engine to 5 degrees ATDC,

The number is, as close as I can make out: 0231170034.

there's your problem! set it to 7,5º BTDC

[Marc]

checked the static timed AE '72 engine to 5 degrees ATDC,

The number is, as close as I can make out: 0231170034.

there's your problem! set it to 7,5º BTDC

Bingo! You've got the 1974-only, 49-state 4-speed distributor commonly referred to as the "SVDA" - a good choice - and 7.5° BTDC is the correct initial setting. At a nominal ~875 RPM idle it should be the same whether the hose is connected or not. If your pulley lacks a 7.5° BTDC mark, make your own 1½ times (to the right of) the distance between the TDC "dimple" and your 5° ATDC mark.

Vacuum advance hose should be going to the small nipple on the LH side of the carb; abandoned retard nipple facing you on the carb should be capped off. Ideally the advance line should incorporate a "loop seal" (go up for a couple of inches leaving the carb before descending to the distributor) to prevent fuel from collecting in the diaphragm can.

There are subtle differences in the internal drillings between a "DVDA" carb and one that came with the SVDA, but in practice it's nothing to worry about, either carb will get along OK with the SVDA.

http://www.oldvolkshome.com/ignition.htm

Posting pics: viewtopic.php?f=18&t=127818

[cwrench]

Thanks guys. I need to get much more knowledgeable about the various distributors and the three or four I have around here.

So the good news is that I've reset to 7.5 BTDC. The bad news is that the bug had begun to not idle prior to and shortly after resetting to 7.5 won't start at all now. My guess is that I had both the wrong timing AND am having fuel supply problems. Think the not starting is fuel but had to break off the troubleshooting until later today. The new pump will arrive in a couple of days. Until then, I think I'll re-install the metal fuel line and continue to poke around.

To further cloud the water, a problem I didn't think would be related to this is now making me think twice about that. When I bought the bug the fuel level was low. I filled it up and while driving had an incredibly strong smell of gas in the cabin. I have a feeling that's why the seller had the tank low (grrrrr). If I remember right, when the tank had dropped to about half, the smell significantly decreased. Figured I'd sic on that problem later but maybe it's tied in to the supply problem?

Hopefully the fuel pump will make things hop again. Thought I might try another new condenser I have on hand just in case (unlikely) I got a bum one out of the box. So that's where I am. I sure appreciate the advice. I'll get that sucker humming again yet.

Thanks for the photo tutorial link Marc! Here's what I have under the lid. Wish I had the original oil cooler...

[Marc]

...Wish I had the original oil cooler...

Yes, the stock DP "doghouse" setup is vastly superior to what you've got now. The stock aircleaner works better, too - single-carb ACVWs need 3-4" of undisturbed space above the airhorn to contain the "standoff fog" that's present there at higher speeds. With that aircleaner, the best you can do is to put a tube between it and the carb to raise it up - dunno how much hood clearance you've got to play with, though...that sucker looks pretty tall.

Here's a pic of a 1600DP with the factory "loop seal" pipe on the vacuum advance line. This one's in a Bus so the aircleaner's different, but it has your distributor. They're getting hard to find anymore, but keep an eye out for one if you go to a swap meet (meanwhile just fit a longer hose and route it upwards by tieing it off to the coil bracket or sumpin'):
http://www.vct2.nl/vwtech/Images/Genera ... 0small.jpg

Another item to be on the lookout for would be the oil-bath aircleaner from a c1971 Bug with the integral thermostat - since they aren't reliant upon vacuum or cables, they're the most reliable IMO - just be sure that the wax-pill t'stat is intact; you can test its operation by heating it with a match, but don't overheat it since it could overextend and be ruined.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/ ... id=1776331

You've got a fairly rare intake manifold center-section there, the big vacuum tap was used for the clutch servo on AutoStick Bugs (or for the power brakes on `71 Buses). Is the throttle guide "soda-straw" tube sticking out that way because it's one from an early engine with cable-mounted throttle return spring, or is it being pushed out by the preload of the Bowden tube between the chassis & engine? That can allow the tubes to separate, whereupon the exposed cable starts to saw a slit in the front tin (which can make the throttle hang up) - until it frays and breaks, anyway.