Starting and breakin of engine with dual valve springs

[Bobs68VW]

I posted the below question on the Facebook Forum, "36hp & Big Block VW Challenge" (Referring to VW Bonneville racing)

I did have it posted in the ShopTalkForums, "The VW Engine Rebuild Forum" with lots of views, but no posts. I deleted it from that Forum and posted it here.

I have a serious question for all you engine builders...Is it truly necessary to start and break in an engine using single valve springs, if the engine will ultimately be run, using dual springs.

Background...The engine has an engle TCS-20 cam with the following specs:
IN .435” .496” 294° .397” 253°
EX .430” .490” 284° .392” 247° 112°

I'm using the recommended Engle springs (dual springs) and followers.

CB Performance heads with 42mm intakes and 37.5 exhausts.

New valve guides, valves and valve keepers

Yes, this is a turbo charged engine...using a T3/T4 hybrid turbo and dual 44 IDF Webers in a blow-thru configuration.

I have read so many different opinions, that I am now completely confused!

In addition, I'm going to use the good cam/lifter break-in lube...Not the stuff supplied by Engle.Also, Lucas Engine Oil break-in Additive, and The high dollar engine break-in oil.

Tell me what you think!!! I'm open to all suggestions!!!

[Piledriver]

As long as you break it in and run it with the proper high zddp oil and procedure, it doesn't matter, if the cam and lifters get along or not is down to the material/machining and such.

[Chip Birks]

I agree with Pile, i have broken in 3 cams in a row with dual springs. Same engine. Just trying different combos. the last 2 used the Lucas cam stuff. I run half a bottle of that with every oil change. Cheap Wal-mart SuperTech oil. No problems at all. Engine is open right now eveeything looks real good.

[turbobaja]

I agree with these guys, and my experience has been the same. just break it in with the duals installed and make sure you're running a good break in additive or dedicated break in oil like Brad Penn. Then either supplement a decent oil with some break in additive, or choose an oil with enough protection for daily use as you choose.

[Bobs68VW]

Thanks guys...If anyone else wants to chime in, please post your thoughts!!!

[Marc]

I'm a firm believer in the value of molybdenum-based paste lube applied liberally to the lobes & lifters and would never assemble a flat-tappet engine without it.
Idling is the enemy. Have your screwdrivers, etc. handy and the timing light hooked up/leads safely routed before you fire up and if you forget something and need to step away, shut it off...more than a few seconds below ~2000 RPM in the first 20 minutes can be enough to start the carnage.

[buildabiggerboxer]

Gents, we were never trained or educated in what's now accepted practice in the air cooled dealerships, we used EP 90 on new cam and lifter rebuilds, and I'm sure others were even more liberal with it on top end and P&L rebuilds etc, but we saw very few of this type of failure and it was assumed a "bad batch" problem with heat treat or material drifting off specs, but VW did have the odd run of cam and lifter problems. My point is nothing we can do will stop it, if it's going to happen it will, and all the above points are valid, but one point is often overlooked and not mentioned yet, and that is cam preparation, it comes out the box, gets a wipe with a gas soaked rag and the wheel bolted on and then gets laid, but prepping is good insurance for longer cam life, first of is an edge chamfer, a steady hand can use an electric die grinder with a small stone or sanding roll all round the lobe edges, especially over the nose where pressure is high, less steady types best stick to a suitable small wet stone, once edged, a good scrub up in hot soapy water removes any grindings or manufacturing contaminants, follow this with liberal WD40 spraying and air line time. Another problem I've found is the factory torque settings seem inadequate,, I've seen 14lb/ft on some web info pages, and I've seen a fair few loose cam wheels, I do these to 20 lb/ft with blue loctite and don't see any problems. I've never done any "running in" with new builds either, period, they are gunned mercilessly from new, road or racing, racing I've never had time for break ins, we have to go qualify, usually the only running is to set the timing and drive to tech, then it's off we go at 7000 rpm.
I've just pulled down a Wasser motor at 400,000 miles that's been flogged as a work bus all its life, and I mean flogged with towing race cars for 13 years, it cracked it's heads Now, but is like new inside, what happens is all the debris from the young and new parts, bore and ring crap mostly, gets blown out of the exhaust instead of bore washed down to the sump by limping around "breaking it in", all the combustion process oil contaminants then get boiled off from the hot oil as another bonus of driving like you stole it, we can't lose, apart from higher gas mileage and the odd speeding ticket..

[andy198712]

i've often wondered what happens in regards to ring seating on the no load cam break in period also...?

[Piledriver]

i've often wondered what happens in regards to ring seating on the no load cam break in period also...?

Nothing good, esp if you are running very rich.
You can wipe out the ring seal and have to redo it.

The suggested "put it in and wail on it" up a steep hill or on a load cell dyno is probably the best possible method for both cam and rings. Aircraft engines get to use a propeller, perfect load.

[craigvwdude]

I've always broke in a big cam with single springs. It's just worked for me.
Is it the correct way? Don't know..

[Piledriver]

I found if you wipe a cam, and go back to certain manufacturers, they will ask you how you did it.

Regardless of your answer (single or dual spring) the other way was correct.

After Jake and Charles spread the word here about the actual ZDDP and other issues, using proper oil has worked just fine for me so far, regardless of spring type, using WEBs nitrided/moly coated, cams and several flavors of SLR regrind/coated lifters.

Next lifter set I buy will probably be tool steel though. Relatively cheap insurance, still needs proper oil.

[neil68]

Add me to the list of those who have always done the cam-lifter "break-in" with the dual springs installed. Over the years I've done this with Engle, Web, CB, Bugpack and JPM cams using a variety of lifters.

Ironically the only lifters I had a problem with...were the tool steel lifters that supposedly didn't require a break-in process (turns out they were a bad batch with incorrect heat treat, and the supplier replaced them for free).

[buildabiggerboxer]

Ironically the only lifters I had a problem with...were the tool steel lifters that supposedly didn't require a break-in process (turns out they were a bad batch with incorrect heat treat, and the supplier replaced them for free).

I had used a few sets of the much maligned ' lubalobes' , including a set in my Wasser 2.5, before I heard all the negativity about those being made from putty, all were dual spring motors with around 320lb nose pressure, all the motors are still using them with many hours logged and the lifters are mint still, these days I use good old graphagene Assembly grease on the lifters, and also on valve stems, the only downer to this is its black as Cole and sticks like @&/# to everything else, so you need to have a successful reputation beforehand...