Front disc and dropped spindle 1971 standard

[Jobug]

Hello every one newbie here from florence al. I am sure this has been talked about but like to get real world help. I bought a 71 standard a year ago in real good shape, drove some after i got it running well. Started to sell it WIFE says no to fix it. I am a mechanic by trade, would like to put disc on front an dropped spindles. Have factory wheels for now and stock tires 165x80 I think { Iam at work} sorry. I would love to get some good honest advice, not work on many bugs but learning fast.

[david58]

This info is from the sticky in the Newbie Forum. Welcome to the STF
What Do You Want To Know About Your VW?

How to Narrow Your Front Beam by spotfreerynse

How to Lower Your Bug

[Marc]

165/80 are a bit shorter than 165-15 and should clear your fenders/headlight buckets OK with drop spindles if the rims are stock-offset. If you aren't going to be lowering the rear also, the rake will cause a loss of caster and you may notice straight-line instability on the highway. The cure for that is to shim the bottom of the beam away from the framehead. A single pair of 6mm/¼" caster shims should be sufficient, for that the stock-length beam bolts will do. Don't forget to loosen the steering box clamp-bolts to realign the rag joint after you shim the beam...you may need to file out the slots in the clamp-half slightly to get the box aligned with the column. If you lower the rear too, so the pan stays level, caster shims won't be needed - unless you're planning on going to Bonneville
Drop spindles will bring the front end down by 2-2½" without disturbing the steering geometry or requiring shorter shock absorbers. Do you get much rain in AL? The disc-brake kits all use calipers equivalent to those found on `66-`71 Type IIIs - a bit too much forward bias with stock Bug rear brakes, on wet pavement the fronts will lock up on hard braking and you'll lose steering control. The larger Type III rear drum brakes are a direct bolt-on and balance things back out, but if wifey's got you on a budget there's a low-buck way to approach the problem, simply save your front wheel cylinders when you put on the discs and install them on the rears if needed - they're about 60% bigger in area and will get you in the ballpark where rear adjustment can be used to make the brake bias tolerable.
Note that disc-brake front hoses are a little bit shorter. Drum-brake hoses work but you need to be extra-careful that they don't flop against the rim at full lock and get cut. If yours are factory-original from `71 they're overdue for replacement anyway.

311 611 701B are 355mm long and "correct" for disc brakes.
113 611 701D are the 380mm drum-brake hoses.
With a lowered front end, the ideal length is somewhere in between.

[Jobug]

Thanks for info, and yes I am planing to lower rear. I have found a lot of good info on this web site glad I found it. I love reading all the good post from real hands on people that are willing to share. I would also like to disc the rear later. Anyone recommend the best place to get these parts, I have found many sites and prices but who do trust!!!

[Marc]

I've used the Type III or modified Type I rear drum brakes on most of my cars which have had front discs. If you make the switch to 5x130mm bolt pattern, the stock rears from a 924T/944 Porsche work pretty well too, at least if the rear tires are grippier than the fronts. Lots and lots of rim choices, too.
I haven't dealt with any aftermarket rear disc-brake kits in many years, if you think that's the way you want to go I recommend you solicit advice here: viewforum.php?f=51

[65'VDuB]

Which front disc brake conversion kit do you guys recommend?

[Marc]

Other than the spindles, all you've got to have is the calipers (w/pads) and rotors. Wheel bearings can be transferred from your drums if they're good; disc flex hoses are slightly shorter but the drum ones are arguably a better choice when lowered - just be sure that they don't flop against the rims at full lock.
The aftermarket has responded to the popularity of the conversion by having kits made in China using "clone" parts to bring the price point down. I would avoid those.
There were several calipers made which'd bolt to Karmann-Ghia spindles (the "drop" spindles use the same bolt span). Single-pin Ates were the most common, but have become obsolescent and are routinely replaced with the double-pin type found on later `Ghias. The Girlings used on the latest `Ghias are rare, too...so what it comes down to is some form of the double-pin, which luckily was also used on South-of-the-Border Beetles and `66-`71 Type IIIs so there're a lot of them around. The rotors can be from any year `Ghia or pre-late`71 Type III. P/N 113 407 075 or 311 405 583A are functionally interchangeable (so some parts-sellers apply the P/Ns indiscriminately). The distinction that may matter to you is early vs late style, the latter have a "hubcentric" ring that may not fit through all rims.
The rotors for a late`71-`73 Type III have the wrong offset, they're like Type IV (P/N 411 407 075) - hard to find new, only worth mentioning to warn you not to try to use junkyard parts from a late III.
The calipers were originally 311 615 107 (left) and 311 615 108 (right) with the only difference being the bleeder location; most on the market these days are "311 615 107/8" with dual bleeders so they're universal. Varga or TRW Brazil are the usual choice.
The calipers for the late`71-`73 Type III have the wrong offset and bolt pattern, but like the rotors you aren't likely to stumble across them (P/N 311 615 107/108B).
A few places sell complete kits that have the drop spindles. brake components and wheel bearings but beware that these are typically assembled to meet the lowest possible price point, so unless they mention the caliper make you can assume they're the Chinese. Wheel bearings will also be the cheapest they can find as a rule. Rotors come from Brazil or Germany, and the German ones are more expensive as you would imagine. Brazilian Beetles came with disc brakes, so they probably know how to make a rotor, but personally I'd rather have the German (I haven't heard of Chinese Rotors yet, but they're probably out there too). Shop around, you may be able to put together your own "kit" - and know what the parts are - for just a bit more depending upon shipping deals or "sale" prices.
Because you're using drop spindles, there'll be no splash shields as found on the stock `Ghia/Type III setups. That means that you shouldn't need the flatter grease seals (P/N 311 405 641B/D/E/etc.) which are needed to clear them, `68½-up "drum" seals (P/N 111 405 641B) should work, Or, just buy the rear seals for a Rabbit if they're cheaper (P/N 321 501 641).

[65'VDuB]

Because you're using drop spindles, there'll be no splash shields as found on the stock `Ghia/Type III setups. That means that you shouldn't need the flatter grease seals (P/N 311 405 641B/D/E/etc.) which are needed to clear them, `68½-up "drum" seals (P/N 111 405 641B) should work, Or, just buy the rear seals for a Rabbit if they're cheaper (P/N 321 501 641).

So you don't have to run a backing plate behind the rotors?

[Piledriver]

Because you're using drop spindles, there'll be no splash shields as found on the stock `Ghia/Type III setups. That means that you shouldn't need the flatter grease seals (P/N 311 405 641B/D/E/etc.) which are needed to clear them, `68½-up "drum" seals (P/N 111 405 641B) should work, Or, just buy the rear seals for a Rabbit if they're cheaper (P/N 321 501 641).

So you don't have to run a backing plate behind the rotors?

...more "you can't" run a backing plate. You might be able to modify the spindles or backing plate to make it work, but the drop spindles lack provisions out of the box. (depends on the spindles)

The spash guards are not hugely effective anyway, you get in the habit of tapping the brakes when you hit big puddles & to clear them occasionally so you HAVE brakes when you hit them for real.
(Used to live in Oregon, where it rains almost as much as Washington State... but it rains harder here in Texas, just not as often)

[Buggin_74]

My bug has factory discs so had splash shields originally.

I took them off 14 years ago as they were rubbing on the 14" wheels I had on.
they as still sitting in the shed somewhere not refitted now I have 17" wheels.

We have an average annual rainfall of 4 foot here and my bug is driven almost daily so sees its fair share of bad weather, as Piledriver said they don't do a whole lot.