Best bet for 16" steel rim?

[ProctorSilex]

I am planning on running these 600-16 tires on my 73 Beetle. I would go with 15", but 600-16 have the smallest dimensions and actually come close to stock. I was thinking that I could scrounge some 16" steelies from a junk yard, but I am not sure which cars to look for (which ones have a lug pattern that I can easily adapt). I saw some late Chevy and late VW 5 lug rims on fleabay and Craigslist, but I think that there is no off the shelf option to fit those. Alternatively, I think that some buses had 16" rims but I am not sure whether they used the wide five pattern that I could get adapters or matching drums for. I might be able to get blanks drilled for free, but I would have to check on that. Any suggestions? Thanks

Edit: The recommended rim width is 4.00 - 4.50 which is probably going to make finding a 16" rim that I can mount even harder. I have a number for someone who makes custom steel rims given cores. I will see how much he would want to make basically stock rims except in 16". His name is Cory Lape and he is in PA. I'd be interested in others in the PA-MD-DE area.
Modern spares should have narrow rims but I wonder whether the metal is strong enough for every day usage.

[shepherd]

I don't think you're going to find what you're looking for without spending a lot of coin, and at the end you'll just have steel rims for a late bug. I've built 16" wide 5 rims for beetles, and the narrowest 16" shell I can find is a 5.5" You have to be careful what you find available, much of it is farm or truck oriented and weighs a ton.

[Piledriver]

I'm curious: What, exactly, are you trying to accomplish?

There's nothing magic about the stock tire diameter or width unless you are an originality fan, and for those folks they still make 560-15s last I checked.

If you actually want it to drive/handle/stop like a much safer modern vehicle you need shorter and wider rubber and wheels (for starters) which are as common as salt.

A good size combo would be 175/70-15 on 5.5 steelies up front, and 195/60 or 65 out back on same wheels.
( allows more reasonable front tire pressure)

You can get low rolling resistance tires in both sizes, as well as a huge choice of off the shelf wheels.
(Although I find the "traditional" offsets less than optimal in a lot of cases, you can get an almost shocking amount of wheel/tire under stock fenders with the right offsets)

[ProctorSilex]

My goal is a military look like the KdF 82E in the second half of this video: http://youtu.be/Ugcz-iy0EK8
I am looking for WW2 style off road tires that will fit, especially without having to change the final drive ratio or lift the car. I don't mind lifting the car mildly in the long run, but I really don't want to get too involved. The tires I linked are the only ones that I found that look the part and are a close fit (except for the rim diameter).

[Piledriver]

Gotcha...

the 700-15s too tall for you?

[ProctorSilex]

Gotcha...

the 700-15s too tall for you?

I'm fine with 30" OD, but I am uncertain how much work it will take for the car to be also.

600-16:
Tread Width: 5.30
Section Width: 6.70
Overall Diameter: 28.30
Recommended Rim Width: 4.00 - 4.50

700-15
Tread Width: 5.70
Section Width: 7.80
Overall Diameter: 29.50
Recommended Rim Width: 5.00 - 5.50

Somebody wrote, either on here or on The Samba (can't find exact post now), that the stock 165R15 tires during the 1970s had a sidewall of 83% which would put the stock OD around 26".

From what I read, it sounded like there'd be clearance issues with the 700-15. I was also concerned about the gearing. I'm not sure which trans is in there now, but it probably has a 3.875 final drive. I do have a 4.125 trans that could go in.

[Piledriver]

The final drive is a bit of a wash, as the 4.125 flavors typically had a taller 4th than the 3.88s, so the end result was about the same from the factory.

If you are setting it up for actual use off road, it looks like raising it a bit would be in order anyway.

The original had 16" wheels, so from that standpoint it could be worth doing.

[ProctorSilex]

Good to know about the trans! I might have wasted time swapping.
It turns out that my Scion xA's spare has a 16" 4x100 rim. I presume the first gen xB is the same. Four bolt Prius has the same along with some Toyota Echos and MR2. People want a lot for the spares on fleabay, but I might be able to scrounge a set from yards if I can make the time. Then I would mate those with 4x100 drilled drums.

By original you mean WW2 era?

I would do a little somewhat off roading. There is a road nearby that the locals call f'sh'n'cr'k (Fishing Creek Road). It starts as a one lane dirt and gravel road winding around the bottom of a wooded hill. It eventually becomes all dirt then goes through a creek where there is some crumbled remains of a concrete something (damn? "bridge"? or just fill?). My friend's truck got stuck there so I have never been further. That'd probably be the extent of my off roading.

If I lifted it, are you still suggesting the 700-15? Won't those require more than just lifting like narrowing the beam a little? I won't be cutting the fenders like a Baja. I like the stock body lifted with big wheels.
Can the stock 3.88 trans and a DP 1600 handle the nearly 30" tire? I'm collecting parts for a 2L T4 upright that might go in this car one day, but that's a way off.

[Piledriver]

"Originals" ==very very early T1s had 16s. Odds of finding rims off a wartime or close T1 ~zero, and ludicrous$$$ if you did.

I have never done any off-roading worth calling it that, so I'd ask the 29.5" tire vs. gearing on the ORF.
The class 11 folks might have some input as well, as they are restricted as to what tires they can run.

With a couple inches of lift and the proper offset I'm sure they'd work for some definitions of work

I will say I have seen more than one bug with a stock 1600DP/trans pulling 31s... probably not ideal, and the 4.12 final drive would help there.
It's ~only 4th gear that would be a wash.

Bigger rubber has advantages, but there's always a downside. The price is certainly right.

As far as the wheels go, if you had a full camo setup WW2 style bug (esp with 4wd) you could run flat black method beadlocks with BFGs and no one would think it strange at all, esp when appropriately covered with mud.

[ProctorSilex]

Thanks. I will post results when I get this together.

[Chris V]

Food for thought...
A 1600DP equipped Thing used a 4.375(x 0.89 4th - overall 3.894) and 14" tires - only ~26.25"

This nets ~60MPH @ 3000RPM

3.875 R&P boxes almost exclusively came with a 0.93 4th - overall 3.604...

Assuming the 600-16 tires 28.3" you'd better build her light to pull the ~70MPH @ 3000RPM with a 1600DP with a 3.875 box.

A 4.375 box would drop it to ~65MPH @ 3000RPM.

I run a mild 1915cc DP w/dual 2-barrel carbs in my Baja with a 4.375 box and 30x9.5's and wouldn't go any taller in fourth.

This nets 69MPH @ 3000RPM.

The Crown Vic rims on eBay are 16x4 - and those weigh in at nearly 3800lbs curb weight...seems like a good chance they'd be worthy on a car half that weight...and 5-lug is a touch more authentic.

[gearheadgreg]

For wheels - a 4x100 wheel on a beetle doesn't look right to me - especially if you are going for an off-road/military vibe.

I would suggest one of 2 options -

1. Switch to the wide-five pattern drums, and use 16" wide 5 wheels. Still not easy to find or cheap.

2. Have some Beetle centers sent to someplace like http://www.trudesignwheel.net/ and have them weld 16" outers to your exact offset and width needs.

[ProctorSilex]

For wheels - a 4x100 wheel on a beetle doesn't look right to me - especially if you are going for an off-road/military vibe.

I would suggest one of 2 options -

1. Switch to the wide-five pattern drums, and use 16" wide 5 wheels. Still not easy to find or cheap.

2. Have some Beetle centers sent to someplace like http://www.trudesignwheel.net/ and have them weld 16" outers to your exact offset and width needs.

Thanks for the info. Both 1 and 2 are rather spendy, but you're right that the wide five would look more apropos. The place you linked starts at $115/rim and they don't list the 4-4.5" width that the tire needs. I'm trying to get a price from the local custom wheel maker before making a decision.
Fortunately for the budget minded, the KdF et al sometimes had some odd looking unmarked hub caps that you can see on the left two in this link. 1/3 to 1/2 of the vehicles in this video also have them and the footage looks like it is from the period so it it is not just somebody's interpretation. I found a local yard that is supposed to have five of the 16x4 spare rims with 4x100. I should be able to get them for far less than custom and weld something on to be able to mount wide five hub caps which I can then mod to look like the period caps.