I have a spare module if you want to use it to test.
Just send it back when you are done with it.
PM me for details....
MSII 3.57 won't start
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Clonebug
- Posts: 4745
- Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:28 pm
Re: MSII 3.57 won't start
Stripped66 wrote:The point wasn't to argue air temps with the current world record holder, but to dispel the claim that the K03 is wrapped up at 150 HP. It's not.
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Jadewombat
- Posts: 1447
- Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2002 12:01 am
Re: MSII 3.57 won't start
Yep, that's the way I had it hooked up, 3 and 4 wires reversed but 1 and 2 were the same. The EDIS module is brand new and the coilpack has been tested. Still not sure though. Don't have the time or patience anymore to mess with the crank-trigger at this point. Just going to focus on getting the injection running right. It surges a bit when I first fire it up, have some adjustments to make. More in a bit. Thanks.Piledriver wrote:I'm sure you looked at this, but the EDIS firing order marked on the coil is 1342 IIRC.
Connect 1>1, 3>4, 4>3 2>2. on an ACVW.
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Clonebug
- Posts: 4745
- Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:28 pm
Re: MSII 3.57 won't start
That sounds pretty good Jade!!!!!Jadewombat wrote:Yep, that's the way I had it hooked up, 3 and 4 wires reversed but 1 and 2 were the same. The EDIS module is brand new and the coilpack has been tested. Still not sure though. Don't have the time or patience anymore to mess with the crank-trigger at this point. Just going to focus on getting the injection running right. It surges a bit when I first fire it up, have some adjustments to make. More in a bit. Thanks.Piledriver wrote:I'm sure you looked at this, but the EDIS firing order marked on the coil is 1342 IIRC.
Connect 1>1, 3>4, 4>3 2>2. on an ACVW.
Just needs some tuning now. Was that when it was still cold???
Stripped66 wrote:The point wasn't to argue air temps with the current world record holder, but to dispel the claim that the K03 is wrapped up at 150 HP. It's not.
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Piledriver
- Moderator
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- Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 12:01 am
Re: MSII 3.57 won't start
It will be easier to sort out the ignition once you have a decent fuel tune, so you aren't fighting two+ issues at once.
You will probably find the default warm up and ASE curves are incredibly rich--- Try for a nice a curve from ~200% @-40F to 100% @ ~200F, ~110% at 70F with a shallow slope to operating temp.
(this assumes injectors in stock location, if upstream I have no idea)
Best procedure I have come up with to tweak the WUE and ASE is slightly tweaking the curve to ~maintain ~12.5>13.4:1 AFR from stone cold to hot: flooring it (flood clear) @ turn on, let the WB heat up for ~30 seconds, start logging and quickly cycling power and then cranking, and tweaking the WUE curve in real time to hit the target as it warmed up. Works pretty decent. If you get a huge lean spike only initially, up the cranking fuel at that temperature. If it stays lean/rich for a few seconds, tweak ASE similarly. (initially it may help to flatline ASE @100%, tune WUE, THEN tweak ASE)
to be continued....
You will probably find the default warm up and ASE curves are incredibly rich--- Try for a nice a curve from ~200% @-40F to 100% @ ~200F, ~110% at 70F with a shallow slope to operating temp.
(this assumes injectors in stock location, if upstream I have no idea)
Best procedure I have come up with to tweak the WUE and ASE is slightly tweaking the curve to ~maintain ~12.5>13.4:1 AFR from stone cold to hot: flooring it (flood clear) @ turn on, let the WB heat up for ~30 seconds, start logging and quickly cycling power and then cranking, and tweaking the WUE curve in real time to hit the target as it warmed up. Works pretty decent. If you get a huge lean spike only initially, up the cranking fuel at that temperature. If it stays lean/rich for a few seconds, tweak ASE similarly. (initially it may help to flatline ASE @100%, tune WUE, THEN tweak ASE)
to be continued....
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
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Piledriver
- Moderator
- Posts: 22764
- Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 12:01 am
Re: MSII 3.57 won't start
If you have a registered version of TS, use VEAL, but generally do not ALSO use MLV to massage the tune: they will fight each other.
(MLV has it's uses: at WOT and high RPM, and for general log viewing/graphing/analysis)
The lamda signal can have a delay at low RPM/load of >3 seconds, and varies with load and rpm.
VEAL/TS has a delay table to account for this, MLV has a single value and small range of delay, so it does not deal well with any acceleration, and then only over a fairly narrow range of RPM/MAP.
(It will "tune" for you anyway, but VEAL will do a MUCH better job of it)
The following is what I determined to be about right on MY setup, YMMV severely.
This is not documented at all, but you figure it out once you use TS/MLV for awhile.
The delay table is planned for a registered version of MLV eventually, and a realtime implementation and tools were even slated for MS3-v1.2 firmware (not in TS, in the MS3 code itself, so CLO2 control actually can work properly) not sure if it's going to get in until 1.3.
Note the lambda delay table does NOT get "loaded" to the MS or msq: It is part of the TS project, and must be exported>imported if you upgrade FW/start a new project.
(I keep forgetting this little detail and after trying new FW wonder why VEAL suddenly sucks and wants to change everything ~randomly)
In the meantime, if you have it, IMHO use VEAL exclusively to calibrate your VE table.
The main issue I had with the whole setup was really verifying the MS and the WBO2 truly agreed.
Analog inputs are ~guaranteed to need some calibration scaling.
(MLV has it's uses: at WOT and high RPM, and for general log viewing/graphing/analysis)
The lamda signal can have a delay at low RPM/load of >3 seconds, and varies with load and rpm.
VEAL/TS has a delay table to account for this, MLV has a single value and small range of delay, so it does not deal well with any acceleration, and then only over a fairly narrow range of RPM/MAP.
(It will "tune" for you anyway, but VEAL will do a MUCH better job of it)
The following is what I determined to be about right on MY setup, YMMV severely.
This is not documented at all, but you figure it out once you use TS/MLV for awhile.
The delay table is planned for a registered version of MLV eventually, and a realtime implementation and tools were even slated for MS3-v1.2 firmware (not in TS, in the MS3 code itself, so CLO2 control actually can work properly) not sure if it's going to get in until 1.3.
Note the lambda delay table does NOT get "loaded" to the MS or msq: It is part of the TS project, and must be exported>imported if you upgrade FW/start a new project.
(I keep forgetting this little detail and after trying new FW wonder why VEAL suddenly sucks and wants to change everything ~randomly)
In the meantime, if you have it, IMHO use VEAL exclusively to calibrate your VE table.
The main issue I had with the whole setup was really verifying the MS and the WBO2 truly agreed.
Analog inputs are ~guaranteed to need some calibration scaling.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
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Jadewombat
- Posts: 1447
- Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2002 12:01 am
Re: MSII 3.57 won't start
I increased the ASE a bit as it still surges a couple of times like it wants to die after starting. The rpms will drop really low then it goes back up. Can't tell if it needs to be leaner or richer though, my guess is richer so I've tried last night increasing it about 5% across the board. You only get one cold start a day though. Haven't driven it yet.