Axle shaft end is so long

[dark_gap]

Hi forum!

I've been rebuilding my swing axle and I have a problem: axle shaft looks longer than they really are before I do anything. The only change I have done is changing the side bearing cover for an EMPI ones, I don't know if they have diferent heigh or something.

I've rebuild it with the Haynes manual and al the o-ring and spacers are mount, and the space between nut and drum plate is the same in both sides. I don't really know whats wrong, I'm so lost.

Here is a Pic of the problem:




Please, I need some help!!
Thank you guys!! Thank you so much!!

[Devastator]

Did your axle slide out of the fulcrum plates? I've had them drop in between the axle and the side gear.

[dark_gap]

Did your axle slide out of the fulcrum plates? I've had them drop in between the axle and the side gear.

Hello Devastator,

You have got the same problem? Did you have so much space between the nut and the drum plate like me?

I didn't disassemble them, only took off the differential casing with the axle shaft fitted to clean and paint the gearbox.

Can the fulcrum plates drop in if I didn't remove the retaining circlip?

Its so strange because the axle shafts have a little play in and out...but if the fulcrum plates have drop in between the axle and the side gear, the play must be larger...or not?

Thank you so much, I'm stuck at this point and so angry with myself

[Devastator]

I haven't had a swingaxle apart in several years, so I'm working form memory here.
The only time I remember having that problem, I had put the wrong drums on. It seems to me that you can put the spacers on backwards and have the same thing happen.
Sorry my memory isn't better.

Can the fulcrum plates drop in if I didn't remove the retaining circlip?

No. Probably not the problem then.
So, you removed the assembly from the transaxle at the side cover, but you only replaced the outside bearing cover, (against the backing plate)?

[dangerous]

Looks like the spacer between the axle shoulder and the bearing has been left out.

It IS possible that the fulcrum plates have slipped down behind the axle's end,
but to protrude as far as yours,
the 4-bolt bearing retainer must not have seated down correctly.

Either wat you must disassemble to find the problem.

[dark_gap]

I haven't had a swingaxle apart in several years, so I'm working form memory here.
The only time I remember having that problem, I had put the wrong drums on. It seems to me that you can put the spacers on backwards and have the same thing happen.
Sorry my memory isn't better.

Can the fulcrum plates drop in if I didn't remove the retaining circlip?

No. Probably not the problem then.
So, you removed the assembly from the transaxle at the side cover, but you only replaced the outside bearing cover, (against the backing plate)?

Well, actually I have change the side cover, the gaskets, all the nuts and studs, the outside oil seal, o-rings.

If isn't the fulcrum plates (cause I didn't disassemble them) and if there is only one shim after the bearing...it must be the new EMPI Side Bearing Cover, this one:



Anybody knows if they have different heigh than originals? Cause I have use all the stuff I have remove and it can be possible that the lenght of the axle shaft have increased about one centimetre.

Looks like the spacer between the axle shoulder and the bearing has been left out.

It IS possible that the fulcrum plates have slipped down behind the axle's end,
but to protrude as far as yours,
the 4-bolt bearing retainer must not have seated down correctly.

Either wat you must disassemble to find the problem.

Hi dangerous,

Tomorrow I will disassemble all again to protrude, Can the inner spacer slip inside the axle shaft? Cause I replace the axle tube outside the axle shaft and then replace the inner spacer - bearing - Oring - shim - small oring - backplate - gasket - oil seal - shim - bearing retainer and then I have tighten the four bolts with an impact gun.

I'm so lost because I spend so much time rebuilding the axle with the Haynes book and then I'm so stuck...newbie problems I think

Thank you mates!!

[Marc]

As dangerous said, it is possible for a fulcrum plate to slip behind the axle with the circlip in place (anyone who says otherwise has just been lucky that it's never happened to them).
But be that as it may, the only thing determining how much axle spline protrudes past the drum - other than the obvious length-of-spline on them - is the stackup of inner spacer, wheel bearing, and outer spacer.
Again I agree with dangerous, the most likely cause of the problem shown in your photo would be a missing inner spacer. There are two widths of that part ∫, but the difference is far less than the discrepancy you're dealing with.

∫The thickness of the inner bearing spacer was changed in early `62. The old one was 5.9-6.1mm thick, the newer part is 6.45-6.65mm thick.

[dark_gap]

Today I'll disassemble one side of the gearbox and confirm if the fulcrum has slip out.

Anyway, when my bug arrived, I have disassemble all and put everything in little plastic bags with a label, then when I assemble I did't use any other parts than the stock ones, except the side bearing covers, that they are EMPI.

I have rebuilt the swing axle 3 times, and probably another time this afternoon, thats why I'm trying to find the problem out before disassemble everything again and assemble with the same fault.

Thank you so much dangerous, devastator and Marc!!

[Devastator]

Anyway, when my bug arrived, I have disassemble all and put everything in little plastic bags with a label, then when I assemble I did't use any other parts than the stock ones, except the side bearing covers, that they are EMPI.

Even with all of the parts secured and labeled, it is very easy to put the spacers in backwards. Especially the one nearest the axle shaft. The large internal chamfer goes towards the axle shaft flange, (or towards the transaxle itself if you prefer).

[dark_gap]

Yeah! I have found the problem. The PO has installed longer axle shafts in the original gearbox and original axle tubes. The only way to resolve it is to put one spacer between the nut and the drum plate...

Thank you so much to all and sorry I didn't check the axle shaft length before install it (newbie fault hehe)

Cheers!!

[Ol'fogasaurus]

If I remember the distance is something like .55. A spare outer spacer from a swing axle is about right for shimming it.

[dark_gap]

If I remember the distance is something like .55. A spare outer spacer from a swing axle is about right for shimming it.

Yeah thats right, I have an old outer spacer and tomorrow I'll go to a local blacksmith to make two exactly copies but without the inner label.

I'll post some pics when I have it done for future reference.

Cheers!!

[Marc]

So, if the original axle tubes housed short-spline axles and now have long-spline axles fitted, the tubes must be "long" (~3/4" longer from bell to wheel bearing than the "short" tubes. They could be `67-style, or they could be `68-style (I'm using shorthand terminology here, referring to the US-market Beetle configurations...it gets a little confusing when you bring Euro Beetles, 'Ghias, and Type IIIs into this discussion).
The salient point is that there are three different depths of swingaxle rear wheel bearing retainer/seal carrier, and each must be matched to an axle tube that has the corresponding wheel bearing recess depth. Too "deep" a combo and the bearing can shift in & out laterally; too "shallow" and the brake backing plate won't be held captive between bearing cover and axle tube.
Something to watch out for when you're dealing with a mish-mash of different vintage components.

[Henryhoehandle]

Marc is correct...Fulcrum plates getting behind the axle would NOT cause it to be too long as the axle is against the bearing and spacer behind the bearing. (please correct me if I am wrong) There is either (1) a spacer left out, (2) wrong drum installed or (3) wrong length axle for the drum,or (4) wrong length axle tube..

[dark_gap]

Marc is correct...Fulcrum plates getting behind the axle would NOT cause it to be too long as the axle is against the bearing and spacer behind the bearing. (please correct me if I am wrong) There is either (1) a spacer left out, (2) wrong drum installed or (3) wrong length axle for the drum,or (4) wrong length axle tube..

Yes, I see it so late, the bearing and drum makes a 'sanwich' and don't cause the axle wrong long. Its only what I have say in the upper post: the PO have change the original axle shaft with a longer one...don't know why but I'll use it.

Have built two spacers of 0.55" to fill the gap.

Thank you so much forum!

I'll post some pics when have it rebuilt!

Cheers