Late model 1200 cc engines

[ainokea]

I' ve worked on VW's for over forty years in Seattle and here in Honolulu. I've seen a number of posts relating to late model 1200 cc engines. The last 1200 I worked on was a 1965 and until recently never heard of a 72 1200. Can someone out there enlighten me, Please?

Ainokea

[SCOTTRODS]

European models had the smaller engine for much longer.... The Americans demanded more power.... Or at least that's kinda part of the reason.....

[Marc]

Late `65 1200s with 9xxxxxx serial numbers had improved cylinder heads (better intake ports, castings that resembled 13/15/1600SP from the outside - those took slightly longer head studs), 1.1:1 rockers... and most important of all, insert cam bearings). That was the last year for the 1200 in the US, but the same basic engine lived on for years in other markets, designated as the "D" engine. Their cases received similar upgrades to the bigger contemporary engines - oil passages were enlarged and dual relief valves adopted as years passed. All US 1200s were 6V, but as 12V was adopted in the the rest of the world in the late `60s the 1200s got the upgrade too. Most made since mid`66 had O-ring-seal crank/flywheel (although only 180mm clutch) same as the US late`66 1300s. 12V variants of the 1200 and 1300 had O-ring-seal 180mm-clutch 130-tooth flywheels, something never seen in the US market.

Some countries impose taxes indexed to displacement, bore, or horsepower ratings; the little 1200 was therefore less expensive to license, just as the 1-liter class is today in Japan. We never got the 1300DP in the US either, but it existed for the same reason. The 1200 was seriously underpowered for a heavier car like a SuperBeetle, but the 1300DP could get the job done for a lower registration fee than the the 1600's.

[ainokea]

Thanks for the response. For awhile there I thought I was going goofy reading about the late 1200's and never having seen one. At least now I' ll be able to understand what's being discussed. Thanks again.

Ainokea

[FJCamper]

Hi Ainokea

Engines in some European nations were (and are) taxed based on displacement.

This determined engine sizes offered to the public, and of course racing classes were developed based on engine size.

Like VAT, the tax is buried in the price, so it is never an issue -- and rarely talked about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_horsepower

FJC

[Buggin_74]

Even Supers (1302A/1303A) in Europe could be ordered with 40hp 1200s, that would have been a neck snapper

Theres a few import 70s 1200 bugs getting round here in aus, You can pick them a mile away with early style bumpers and rear lights and no headliner.
the engines are odd balls, dual relief with doghouse oil cooler but old flat port 1200 heads.

I've owned a few 70s aussie 1300 standard bugs which came with AB and AR 1300 dual ports, they get along ok.
One was a 75 but had been fitted with a stale air 40hp 1200 from a 61 Beetle.
It was slow but no more so than most 1200 beetles, the 70s 1200 and 1300 bugs had 4.375 gearboxes so got moving okish with the power they had.

[aussiebug]

The 1200 actually outlasted all the larger engines - the last 100,000 bugs built in Germany between 81 and 86 when production stopped in Europe, were all 1200s.

They stayed 6v when the 1300 1500 (and later 1600) engines went to 12v in 1968, but they changed to 12v during the 70s.

The US only ever saw the largest of the engines available in any one year, but in other markets there were up to 4 engine choices.

For example, in Australia in 1970 you could choose a 1300sp or 1500sp standard bug (both with swing axles but the 1500 semi-auto had the IRS suspension from 68 onwards). But when the Superbug was introduced into Australia in May 1971, they had the 1600 twin port engine, and the standard bugs were left with the 1300 twin port engine to try and differentiate the two models.

There's a list of engine numbers (and matching chassis numbers) on our site at www.vw-resource.com/years.html

[Marc]

Note that Rob's chart doesn't acknowledge "model" years until 1961, when they were actually adopted in 1955. 1955 was the shortest model year at 7 months, henceforth they've been 12 months from 1 August through 31 July. (Obviously the 17-month 1956 run in the chart also includes a typographical error).

The last `55 was built on July 31, cars built the next day were `56 - that convention continued from that point forward.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=451619

All VWs sold in the US market for the 1967 model year were 12V; prior to that it was an M-code option (most likely provided for police & emergency vehicles to support 12V radio equipment).
It's not so simple as 1200=6V and 13/15/1600=12V, either - I don't pretend to know all the details, but there's more to it than that. It's been established that Australian Beetles had some unique distinctions compared to the rest of the world (their cars were shipped there in kit form and assembled locally) so don't assume that every detail true there carries over to the rest of the world).
I owned an Italian-market `67 Beetle with a factory 1500 and it was 6V, using the large-diameter generator and remotely-mounted regulator common to late `66 US-market Karmann-Ghias...had a 6V lightning-bolt decal on the A-pillar, similar to the 12V decal seen on a US-market `67.

[aussiebug]

Thanks for pointing out the "model year" errors on my pages Marc - most of that info came from a very old copy of Volksworld (Brit mag) about 12 years ago - I don't have the mag any more. Interestingly, the bugs in Aus were called a 58, 60 etc up to the 62 model year when it were called the "62 and a half" bug (got the towel rail or sissy bars) denoting the change to the model year dating. Hence my probable confusion about the point of model-year date change.

Marc's right about the variations around the world.

Sth Africa kept the king pin front suspension for many years after the rest of the world changed to ball joints.

Just for info Marc, Aussie cars were fully MANUFACTURED in Aus up to the 67 model year, and in that year the body changes did occur (door knobs etc) but the car stayed 6v (it was essentially still the same as the previous year). Aussie MANUFACTURED cars had RHD sweeping wiper blades for example (swept left to right so the unswept corner was on the left). And they had their own numbering system - the second digit is a 9...so a 65 AUSSIE bug was 195,xxx,xxx where the German built 65 bug was 115,xxx,xxx

But from 68 onwards, they were CKD - (Completely knocked down) - and ASSEMBLED in the Melbourne plant. So the chassis numbers changed to the German numbers (118,xxx,xxx), and wipers changed to LHD wipers and so on.

As a curious aside, in 68 and 69 Australia produced a "Country Buggy" which was a mini-Thing, based on the unaltered 67 bug chassis with jeep-like body, using left over 1300 6v engines from the 67 model and had kombi reduction hubs so it could climb steep hills, but had a top speed of about 85kmh. Only 850 were built and very few remain now. It was canned when the Sth African Govt abandoned a plan to buy thousands for their military.

Bugs were assembled in other factories in this part of the world too - in the Phillipines for example (chassis number 7 for them - a 65 Phillipino bug was 175,xxx,xxx).

[Marc]

...Aussie cars were fully MANUFACTURED in Aus up to the 67 model year, and in that year the body changes did occur (door knobs etc) but the car stayed 6v (it was essentially still the same as the previous year)...

I understand Aussie `67s didn't get the unique rear apron and lid found elsewhere, and that the padded dash wasn't adopted in `68. Still some "local content" on the bodies, or did they get leftovers from Germany?

[aussiebug]

Hi Marc, as I said, the Aussie 67 was essentially the same as the earlier cars - there weren't any big changes from the 62 model - just the cosmetic bits - badge work and such.

The 68 and later cars were completely German imports - but not a "car to a container", but rather a container each of engines, left front fenders, floor pans and so on. So the assembly plant did not bother to match the colours to the German "birth certificate" - they just grabbed any matching colour body panels and put them on any chassis, with any engine (of the correct size). So my 1970 bug is Savannah Beige when the German birth certificate says it's white, and the H series 1500 engine number is a few thousand out (the 1300 engine was available as an option too). The Aussie compliance plate says it's was MANUFACTURED in Australia, but that's stretching it - ASSEMBLED is more correct.

The padded dash was not introduced into Australia until 73 or 74. Reversing lights were not required in Aus until 1972 so the 68-71 flat bottom tail lights are all-red at the bottom - only the 72 got the flat bottom lights with clear lower section. The 73 elephant foot lights have only one wide red section - the bulbs were combination stop/tail, where in the USA you have separate sectionns for stop and tail. Headlights in Aus stayed bulb and reflector - no sealed beams (makes it easy to fit halogen bulbs), so the front park lights stayed in the main head light similar to the 6v cars - the front fenders have only the indicator - no park light.

[Chris V]

... The 73 elephant foot lights have only one wide red section - the bulbs were combination stop/tail, where in the USA you have separate sectionns for stop and tail...

Very neat...I wanted two-element 1157's on my Baja using the US elephant foot lights - it was a pain to modify the bulb-backingplate and back housing.

Didn't Australia receive some odd speedometers with MPH printed on the glass/plastic - rather than KPH on the gauge face...one year only in the `70's?

[aussiebug]

I don't recall speedos with printing on the glass. Aus went metric in 1972, so my 70 is still in miles. I seem to remember they had dual kmh/mph speedos for a few years (both on the normal mask) then went to metric only.

[Buggin_74]

Rob, it was mid 73 we went to Km/h speedos, we never got the dual scale ones but many has sticker overlays fitted.
Also ADR 21 started jan 73 so all bugs from then on including the last few months of Sbug had padded dashes.

Chris, the aussie only 72 speedo is the one you're thinking of.
It was in MPH and had plastic perspex lense with the numbers printed on it instead of the face.

It also had seperate left and right indicator lights and the high beam light in a different spot.
Different needle too.

Heres one, and also a shot without the lense on,

[aussiebug]

Thanks Buggin - I learn somethiing new every day.