FI Build Up - Vee Dub Nut Build #2

[Vee Dub Nut]

You are more than welcome, I'm gonna need one of those pulleys, but it's going to be a few weeks due to other commitments.

Note:The `08 (07 probably identical) GSXR harness has a nice little sealed relay/fusebox setup on it...

Yup.. noticed that too. I just got the pigtails pulled so far and haven't messed with it anymore yet. Looked like there might be a few things on the harness that will be nice to hold on to.

The "crud" is going around here lately, and I didn't feel to hot last night, so other than some google searching I didn't do much more with any of the parts.

[Vee Dub Nut]

I love it when a build starts to come together, you have been busy.

Yup... been chasing down a lot of info trying to figure out how things are going to end up overall.

I've been pretty fortunate on the deals that I've found and that all my parts came together so easily. Lets hope this continues (although its going to have to slow some as I've reached the bottom of my car piggy bank again LOL)

[Vee Dub Nut]

Looking good!
I'm glad that you are happy with the pulley. I love seeing parts that I've made getting used.

Throw Devastator a drawing with dimensions and I suspect he could spit you a set of what is needed.

Thanks Pile. Yes, i can probably make whatever you need.

Thanks sir!.. The pulley is a nice piece for sure and is just exactly what's needed for the job. Makes it a no brainer to me.

I'll keep you in mind for any other fab I come up with... I've got some ideas in my head that I may pursue that might be a bit more difficult for me to pull off on my own. I've got some machining skills, and know some folks that can do quite a bit more, but some of this just might be difficult to accomplish given timing and access to tooling.

[Devastator]

I'll keep you in mind for any other fab I come up with... I've got some ideas in my head that I may pursue that might be a bit more difficult for me to pull off on my own. I've got some machining skills, and know some folks that can do quite a bit more, but some of this just might be difficult to accomplish given timing and access to tooling.

I'll be here. Just PM me and we'll see what we can do. I program CNC's and I'm not afraid to use them.

[Vee Dub Nut]

So a little of an impasse with the parts...

I spent my lunch break today laying out parts trying to mock up how it will go together. I'm leaning pretty heavily to using some sort of bolt plate with spigot boots to attach the ITBs to the intakes, but I'm not terribly keen on just bolting them to the IDF intakes with the spacing so far off. It's true that I could port at the interference/misalignment in the intakes, but I like the idea of cutting down the intakes better to get a more direct match.

I did some tracing of the centerline of the intakes down the back side to see how far they would need to be cut down to line up with the ITBs... and it looks like they would need to be chopped down 2-2.5" to line up




So you can see that that would essentially put the top flanges down to the crook in the manifolds




So that in itself is not an issue. I've got some 1/2" aluminum plate that I can make new top manifold flanges, and they would turn out pretty slick. The issue arises when I start looking at everything in the context of the engine bay.



As you can see, there really is ZERO room for the fuel rails to hang off the ITBs. Now I was expecting this to be an issue, but didn't realize how little room there would actually be to work with. The GSXR fuel rails extend off the side of the ITBs nominally 4". No matter how I try to bias the ITB location from side to side, there doesn't seem to be enough room without having to cut at the inner fender wells (which I don't want to do), or changing up the fan shroud to something like a 36hp shroud. Even then, I'm not sure if a 36hp shroud would buy enough room since the ITBs will be dropping down 2-2.5" which is down on the part of the shroud that's wide no matter which style...

A possible solution... Go the CB EFI IDF manifold route. Although spendy, this would fix the fuel rail issue. I'd still be looking at cutting them down to get the alignment correct, but from looking at pictures it's hard to tell if my new lower flange would stay clear enough from the injector bosses. I THINK that it would clear, especially since I'm using the the narrow pencil type injectors and not the fatter round ones, but it would have to be a buy a set and see thing...

See this photo, just imagine the bottom of the upper flange just even with the top of the injector boss surface


Some other angles




Thoughts or ideas?

I'm sort of stalled at the moment on this... Being stalled is a dangerous thing for me, as I tend to start getting more ideas rolling around upstairs and nothing is safe LOL

[Piledriver]

Cut and weld on some ~40mm ID aluminum tubing at the length that is convenient, no clearance issues.
I'm even considering the idea of just welding the TBs onto the manifolds.
(have to worry about distortion though, but tubes><TBs then tubes<>manifolds might work as a sequence)
Saves on velocity stacks too.

[andy198712]

Very interesting! Especially since I've only been looking for the earlier itb's so they split into 4 but now realise I need the later type so thanks!

One thing to note on the gixxer injector size is that they rev to about 14,500 rpm....

Could you make up fuel rails for the itb's that might be more stubby over the OEM ones?

I also wonder if you can cut the manifolds down to the correct length then bore in a step so the itb's sit down in this step? Does that make sense?

Or a base plate on the head and two spigots then join that to the itb's with silicone hose.... Bit bodge but would allow some lee way in position maybe....

[Vee Dub Nut]

Very interesting! Especially since I've only been looking for the earlier itb's so they split into 4 but now realise I need the later type so thanks!

I think some of the early 600 ones that split up may still have bolt on linkage?? I'm not sure though.. Just wanted to post a warning that for sure the early 1k ones have fixed linkage which would be a PITA to work with.

One thing to note on the gixxer injector size is that they rev to about 14,500 rpm....

You have to really look at the overall power output of the engine to determine reasonableness of injectors, as the engine speed relates back more to the power density of the engine (i.e. specific output vs displacement) than injector sizing. Despite what RPM they turn, they still only put out XXXhp, and the fact remains that their injectors would support quite a bit more output than they have.

Could you make up fuel rails for the itb's that might be more stubby over the OEM ones?

Potentially, but the injector length is fixed, so there is only so much to be had.

I also wonder if you can cut the manifolds down to the correct length then bore in a step so the itb's sit down in this step? Does that make sense?

I'm not exactly following this...

Or a base plate on the head and two spigots then join that to the itb's with silicone hose.... Bit bodge but would allow some lee way in position maybe....

Ultimately I'm going to have to play with the positioning of things to make it all work. I'm trying to get as much of it hard mounted as I can, as that is one less potential problem area for sealing/leaks when on boost, and one less thing that will need to be supported when I go to start attaching all the pressure ducting.

[Vee Dub Nut]

Cut and weld on some ~40mm ID aluminum tubing at the length that is convenient, no clearance issues.
I'm even considering the idea of just welding the TBs onto the manifolds.
(have to worry about distortion though, but tubes><TBs then tubes<>manifolds might work as a sequence)
Saves on velocity stacks too.

I'm a little concerned with making the intakes overly long, as I like the quick engine response of ITB's and a small throttled volume. That being said, this still may have to be an option I look in to.

[Vee Dub Nut]

I think my first plan of action may be to try to go the 36hp shroud route, and just flip the throttle bodies around so that the rails face inward.

I can still then try to bias my new manifold top plates towards the outside of the intakes to try and space the ITB's further to the fender-well to increase clearance around the shroud for the rails. If I still need more after that, I can just work at reshaping the outer edge of the shroud some...

Guess I'll see if any locals have a 36hp shroud laying around.. I got rid of my old stuff a while back

[Devastator]

Can you rotate the injectors so that the wire clips don't hit anything, then attach fuel line tot he top of them, and not run a fuel rail at all? If I had a set of those TB's lying around, I'd make up some sort of low profile fuel rail for them. I made a custom set for my installation, but I'm not using ITB's, so they'd be of no help to you at all.

[Vee Dub Nut]

^ That MIGHT work, but by the time you get a connector on top of the injectors, its not going to be much smaller than the already slim GSXR rails..

I thought of another issue (maybe).. IF I do continue with the GSXR injector route, do I HAVE to use staged injection to operate the second set of injectors? To my understanding, staged injection basically forces you to use fuel CH1 for the primary stage and fuel CH2 for the secondary stage. I don't like the idea of pairing up all four of my primary injectors together on one channel, and then using my second channel for the secondary stage, as that completely eliminates the ability to change up the injector pairing and staging for tuning reasons and semi-sequential injection?

Since a single injector channel can operate at least 4 injectors (i.e. MS on any piece of American iron), can I just fire the primary and secondary injectors together all the time and still retain my flexibility with pairing on the separate channels? If the combined flow rate of the injectors is approximately the same as the single injector I was using before, the idle PW will essentially be about the same right? Or would the fact that you have two injectors contributing to dead time etc mess this idea up?

[Devastator]

Sounds like an adapter plate would need an angle cut on it in order to tilt the TB, and injectors, out of the way?

[Vee Dub Nut]

Sounds like an adapter plate would need an angle cut on it in order to tilt the TB, and injectors, out of the way?

That's an option.. I can either make the injectors face inwards or outwards, and can tilt the flange either direction as well to facilitate more room. I'm not terribly keen on tilting the ITB's though, as it will make it more difficult to get pressure ducts attached to them when I get to that point. I'm really tempted to see if I could turn them inwards and stay clear of a 36hp shroud. That would probably give me the most room and not require cutting the car.

[Devastator]

It would only make the pressure ducts challenging if you don't use some sort of flexible coupling, (like a silicone hose). Silicone hose seems to be simple and maybe even preferred in this case.