FI Build Up - Vee Dub Nut Build #2

[Steve Arndt]

Marty Staggs has said the T works best with draw through vs the Y.
For blow through dry flow it shouldn't matter as long as the Y is even.

[volksbugly]

Marty Staggs has said the T works best with draw through vs the Y.
For blow through dry flow it shouldn't matter as long as the Y is even.

This is why I prefer a Y.

Quoted from Turbonetics page 11:
"Pressure drop in manifolds can vary widely, however if the manifolds of sufficient size and has properly sized hose connections, the pressure loss will be in the range of .1PSI to .3PSI per side. The same applies for piping losses. A properly sized mandrel bent tube; bent to 90° may have a loss of only .15 psi to .2 psi whereas a tight radius casting could have a pressure drop as high as .3 to .4PSI. As a guide, if you have a well designed system with properly sized manifolds and tubing, pressure drop might be in the range of .3 to .5PSI. If you have a core pressure drop of .5PSI, you must add this to get total system pressure drop."

http://www.turboneticsinc.com/sites/def ... ooling.pdf

Sorry VDN to Hyjack on your build thread a little!

[Vee Dub Nut]

No worries!

[Vee Dub Nut]

FINALLY have some updates....

First the throttle bodies. I unfortunately found out that 01 GSXR 1k throttle bodies don't lend themselves to modification to ITBs like many of the others. Although they will split into 4 separate units, the linkage is all hard fixed to the shafts and not bolted on where you can more easily adapt hardware to it. I was fortunately able to return the set I bought so I could continue the hunt, and after looking over supa's and grelland's recent builds using late model 600 ITBs with Devastators slick matching pulley, I thought I'd go that proven route instead and just deal with the bore spacing issue. After some ninja like ebay surfing I was able to score a nice set of 07 GSXR 600 ITBs for a mere $35, and then I hit up Dev and picked up one of his slick little pulleys. All in all I'm happy with the new direction things are going.

What I started with:



Dev's pulley next to the stock 600 wheel:



After some quick work stripping them down and cleaning. They are 40mm bore throttles







I'm still deciding what I'm going to do for mounting overall. I can go the bolt plate route like supa pretty easily, but I'm also toying with fabbing up some top and bottom sandwich plates with oring seals that fit the tops and bottom of the ITBs and then will bolt to the IDF intakes. I'd like to have some sort of top plate that would allow me to use some CB pressure hats for the plumbing, as then I wouldn't have to reinvent the wheel as far as that goes. I also like the idea of using spigot boots for the lower mounting (again for ease), but I'm worried about sealing at pressure.

As for the injectors, I'm toying with lots of options. Ultimately what ever ends up being the most cost efficient will win out. I've got two different paths that I can go take overall, but nothing is decided yet:

option 1: just buck up and buy some CB EFI IDF intakes and rails, and then just use the ITBs for air flow only. Would be easy to plug up the injector ports on the ITBs, and my current injectors would work well with the cb parts... Cons, added cost

option 2: work with putting the injectors in the ITBs

2a: try and fit my current 60lbhr injectors in them and make new rails. Downside is that my injectors don't seem to fit the ports in the ITBs at all though, and new rails will still be spendy

2b: use the stock GSXR injectors and modify the stock rails. Should be easy enough to do, and I know everything will fit well. I shot an email over to RC Engineering with the stock injector part numbers, and they provided me some flow rate data that suggests that if I use all 8 of the GSXR injectors (ie staged) I should be good (primary injectors Bosch EAT255 are 225cc and the secondary injectors Bosch EAT256 are 460cc, totaling around 65lbhr overall). My concern is that these flow numbers seem awfully high for the application they were on, and it makes me question the data from RC. That being said, if anyone knows, they should??? Upside is that it's no added cost, and I can sell my current injectors and be ahead.

Both options 2 a and b are going to require working clearance issues between the fuel rails and fanshroud/body depending on how I mount them, but those are minor issues overall....

To be continued...

[Vee Dub Nut]

So now that the ITB details are coming together, lets move onto the rest of the changes...

I decided I wanted to go COP with all the new changes to try and clean up the setup more. I want to get the coil and wires away from all the rest of the electronics, so I started to see what folks are using. Started first by considering GSXR coils... Found a set on eBay and picked them up to see what's what..



Overall they fit pretty decent and clear the IDF intakes ok, but overall I wasn't sold on them completely for this application.

Kept looking around and stumbled onto Chips setup in which his using some Accel COPs from a 4.6L Ford, so I started perusing the web to see what the story was on them. Overall they looked like another good option, so I started to hunt down a set. Perused eBay some, but before I bought any I was able to score a full lightly used set for free! So now I got extras.





My plan is to use the Ford coils when it goes back together... I've scouted some preliminary dwell settings on the MS forums, so all I need to do is to get to doing.

I also scored a GSXR wiring harness off eBay so that I could get the TPS pigtail for the new throttle bodies, and it was a double score that it had the pigtails for the GSXR coils which is the same as used on the Ford coils. I've already started harvesting the goods from it...



I'll be rewiring the whole car in the process and relocating the ECU to clean up the interior of the car more. I picked up a basic wiring bundle from DIY to rewire all the basic stuff since its a really nice start to the harness. I'll harvest some of my old wiring for the extras I'm adding.



I also picked up the mod kits with the additional coil drivers for the COP's and kits to to run a PWM idle valve and relay control. The PWM idle valve will be on the back burner for now, but I will install the relay control so I can trigger my meth injection with the ECU. This will give me better control and tuning of the spray than just a MAP only trigger



Last score was a turbosmart blow off valve since my bosch valve went with the old intake. This will be a nice upgrade from before.

[Vee Dub Nut]

I think that's the bulk of it for now...

I was also giving a lot of thought to an air/water IC, but the budget just won't allow that right now. I plan to plumb everything up in a manner that leaves a place holder for this in the future, and its end location will likely be in the engine bay as I just don't want to hack into the car anymore than I have to.

[Piledriver]

To help ease your mind, the GSXR AFAIK use the inner injectors at low rev, and the outers at high RPM.
Exclusively... all 8 are never active except perhaps during stage transitions.

The 08 set i have came with injectors and nice SS rails... Easy work to add a fitting, either braze or TIG.
Throw Devastator a drawing with dimensions and I suspect he could spit you a set of what is needed.

(I haven't cut mine yet, I similarly modded some R1 rails for my current setup, perfect stock injector spacing for a T4)

[Vee Dub Nut]

To help ease your mind, the GSXR AFAIK use the inner injectors at low rev, and the outers at high RPM.
Exclusively... all 8 are never active except perhaps during stage transitions.

That's what I figured had to be the case... even still, seems like a lot of injector.

That being said, RC Eng should know, so it's very likely the route I'm going to persue. I'll use MS to stage the injection so I'll start on the smaller inboard injectors, then add in the outboard ones at high speed/boost

[Piledriver]

You might consider reinstalling the outer butterflys. The outer injectors spray pattern impinges on them, could make for better mixture, as it's midstream vs the opposing TB wall.

I know it's not the "trick" setup, but I personally intend to try it both ways and see how the engine feels about it before tossing them.

I have been lGoogling for those flow numbers for ages.

Note: IIRC those injectors will run great at up to 73 PSI, so you have even more headroom.

[Vee Dub Nut]

...

The 08 set i have came with injectors and nice SS rails... Easy work to add a fitting, either braze or TIG.
Throw Devastator a drawing with dimensions and I suspect he could spit you a set of what is needed.

(I haven't cut mine yet, I similarly modded some R1 rails for my current setup, perfect stock injector spacing for a T4)

Yea, these (07 model) have some metal rails (not sure if SS or not) that should be easy to tig fittings to. Plan is to work with them as is, but I could easily fab up replacement rails if required.

[Vee Dub Nut]

You might consider reinstalling the outer butterflys. The outer injectors spray pattern impinges on them, could make for better mixture, as it's midstream vs the opposing TB wall.

I know it's not the "trick" setup, but I personally intend to try it both ways and see how the engine feels about it before tossing them.

I have been lGoogling for those flow numbers for ages.

Note: IIRC those injectors will run great at up to 73 PSI, so you have even more headroom.

That's a thought... Guess I could lock them in the open position for the injectors to spray against without too much issue.

I just happened to get a google hit on a GSXR forum with the flow rate info for them. The original poster mentioned that he got the info from RC, so I shot them an email too just to see, and they confirmed the numbers.

Nice to know I can crank up the pressure if I need to squeeze a little more from them.

I'm assuming that Suzuki runs some pretty low duty cycles with them on the bikes. I did gather that the turbo GSXR guys (nut jobs) rarely change the injectors out, so that kind of supports their available overhead.

[supaninja]

I love it when a build starts to come together, you have been busy.

[Devastator]

Looking good!
I'm glad that you are happy with the pulley. I love seeing parts that I've made getting used.

Throw Devastator a drawing with dimensions and I suspect he could spit you a set of what is needed.

Thanks Pile. Yes, i can probably make whatever you need.

[Piledriver]

You are more than welcome, I'm gonna need one of those pulleys, but it's going to be a few weeks due to other commitments.

Note:The `08 (07 probably identical) GSXR harness has a nice little sealed relay/fusebox setup on it...

[Devastator]

I'll put your name on one Pile.
I could probably arrange black anodize on it if you want. Think i have a batch going out this week.