Free.99 Baja Bug Build

[A.Aeschbury]

Hello ShopTalk

I think this is my first post here, definitely my first build thread.

A buddy of mine that I work with recently gave me a Baja'ed (is that a word?) 1969 Beetle. It was built in 1985 by another mutual friend as a electronic engineering senior project in HS. So its got some grey hairs for sure. The good news is I know both PO's so hopefully that minimizes the fixing someone elses mistakes phase of the project. The other good news is it has a 2180 in it already, along with the majority of a spare 1600 dp and a box of random parts. This is my first VW, my first Baja, and my first serious automotive project.

The bad news. Something is really wrong with the engine. The PO showed me a video of the engine making some rather sad noises. It sounded like a stuck valve, but when I got around to pulling the head I found this sucker in the #4 cylinder.




That led to a piston that looks like this




And a head that looked like this




So I'm in the market for new heads, pistons, and cylinders. I'm not sure what the cam is but I'm told its something after market not a reground stock cam. I'm not really sure what direction I want to go with this. My first inclination is just to get replacement heads, pistons and cylinders and bolt it back together as a 2180 assuming the cam looks ok once I get the existing pistons off. I don't want to spend a ton of money because there are plenty of other issues with the car including brakes that don't really work, and some pretty bad rust in a couple places. I would like to get it running so I can drive it around a little and see if this is a long term hobby for me or just a lark.

So with that I turn to you TalkShop gurus. What should I do? I got the thing for free and I made decent money this summer so I want to get it running before it gets too cold. Then I can drive it around a while and maybe catch the bug bug. Besides being bored to 92mm the engine also has dual Italian Weber IDF 44's so that's nice. I have heard pretty bad things about the cylinder wall thickness on the 92mm. Would it be worth it to have the case machined to 94mm so I can get the thicker wall 92mm cylinders? I was hoping to not crack the case, because re-building a whole engine is intimating, expensive, and time consuming. In its original configuration it had some stupid high compression and had to run on 110 octane. That's something I don't want to do so whatever I can do to get the compression back to 8:1 or something would be awesome. Like I have said this is kind of an experiment for me, I'm really just trying to get it back on the road so I can cruise my neighborhood, maybe go to a meet or two, and hit some Ohio/Kentucky trails (fire roads). But I don't want to put $800 into a engine to have it blow up in 500 miles. So throw out some suggestions. I also could get a free stock turbo from a 1.8t so if I really enjoy this VW stuff maybe that 1600 could be the start of a turbo build, but that's way in the future. Anyway a couple more pictures of this silly beast and I wait patiently for your opinions.

Thanks
Alex

ps If anyone in the Cincinnati area needs glass we have a couple tons kicking around (pretty much any kind of pane imaginable) we just moved into a new shop that was previously a glass company.

[Chris V]

If you can post a picture of the inside case register it would be helpful...There's a chance you can fit either thick-wall 92mm liners or 94's to your closed bottom-end - by having some additional machining done to the base of the new cylinders ($100).

First business should be figuring out the dimensions of the engine as it was...rod length, piston pin height, cylinder head volume, and deck height.

The heads look like they may be 39x32 '041's...which aren't ideal for most. Commonly available heads worth considering might be ~$600 and feature 40x35.5 valves and ~55cc chambers with double springs and some portwork.

The cooling shroud isn't doing the engine any favors compared to a stock `71-`74 'doghouse' style, or preferably the `75+ FI doghouse shroud.

[A.Aeschbury]

Thanks for the response. I'm sorry I don't know what the "inside case register" is. If you could give me a little more info I would definitely do that. I was planning around $600 for heads. Then getting new cylinders and pistons. I also have to get some kind of exhaust to get it running. Though that will be a price driven decision for now.

I think the original owner may have made most of the tins himself, or heavily modified existing tins. I think it has a non VW radiator too. I'm meeting with him tomorrow to get the down low on everything he can remember. It was 20+ years ago so we will see.

I started reading about deck height and compression some, but that is pretty confusing. I will try to get the rod length, piston pin height, and cylinder head volume (though that will change with new heads which are a must).

[Chris V]

The inside bore of the case where the cylinder fits...Luckily a baja header should be much cheaper and easier to sort.

The cylinder head volume needs to be measured, so that an accurate compression-ratio may be calculated, and this may shed some light on anything else to look for. The requirement of 110 octane fuel is pretty drastic...'stupid high' is better expressed as numbers.

[CentralWAbaja]

Welcome to the "Dirt Pile" Alex

2 things.....1st is pics and lots of them...looks like you got that so far and second....

Baja'ed IS a word....at least here it is. So is baja'd, baha, baha'ed, chopped, clipped, hacked, torched, plasma'd, Sawz-all'd.....we understand, and speak them all around here.

You're in good hands now. These guys will get your motor questions answered and can help you lighten your wallet also.

Oh yeah...and watch out for Herbie!

[TexasBaja]

Oh yeah...and watch out for Herbie!

I second that...

[Devastator]

Be certain you are, indeed, running 92 mm cylinders. Also, verify whether or not you are running "stroker" pistons.
How long had it run when that happened?
It looks as though you have an external oil cooler. Does it have a fan attached and how many passes does it make? If there is, indeed, a fan of some sort on there, that cooling shroud should be adequate for now.
I've been running that same cooling shroud, an external oil cooler, (full flow), and 94 mm cylinders, with a turbo and in the Arizona heat, and never cracked a cylinder. I did, however, crack a 92 mm cylinder without a turbo, a shroud like that one, or an external oil cooler.
I think I'd worry less about cooling the engine right now, and more about getting it back together. The longer they are taken apart, the more things start to get dirty and/or rust.

[Chris V]

...It looks as though you have an external oil cooler. Does it have a fan attached and how many passes does it make? If there is, indeed, a fan of some sort on there, that cooling shroud should be adequate for now.
I've been running that same cooling shroud, an external oil cooler, (full flow), and 94 mm cylinders, with a turbo and in the Arizona heat, and never cracked a cylinder. I did, however, crack a 92 mm cylinder without a turbo, a shroud like that one, or an external oil cooler.
I think I'd worry less about cooling the engine right now, and more about getting it back together. The longer they are taken apart, the more things start to get dirty and/or rust.

I agree with you for the most part, but would put more emphasis on the cooling in this full-bodied Baja than on say your open rail. Early 92's are definitely a problem, some still choose to run them and have them 'power-sleeved' at the head-end by a machine-shop - increasing them from 98mm to 101.1mm OD, same as 94's and the new thickwall 92's.

Wouldn't hurt to see a picture of the inside roof of the crankcase along the parting-line to look for material removed when the stroker crank was added...

[motorbreath53]

"can't find that manifold nut anywhere... Oh well... i'm sure I have one in the bolt bucket"

Cool car... specially' for the $$$.

[A.Aeschbury]

Thanks for the kind word gang.

I talked to the last owner at length and I'm talking to the guy who built the engine tonight. I'm pretty sure this engine is about toast. The build is really old and full of bad ideas from the 80's. It just doesn't seem worth putting any money into. Especially with a lovely 1600 dp sitting next to it on the bench. This may get me flamed to death

buuuuut

I think I've decided to put it back together and just run it as is for a bit and build the 1600 into something that would be reliable. The valves seem to still function, they aren't stuck but I do wonder how well they seal. The way I see it worst that will happen is it only ends up running on three cylinders, or I ruin an engine that is pretty much beat anyway. Then I can put the money I have into new brakes and shocks, cruise around the block a couple times and build something else without having to guess whats inside this one. That way I can take my time make some informed decisions and build a fresh engine from the ground up.

[Devastator]

I'm pretty sure this engine is about toast.

I've decided to put it back together and just run it as is for a bit

The way I see it worst that will happen is it only ends up running on three cylinders, or I ruin an engine that is pretty much beat anyway.

You could always check some of the clearances and know for sure. Plastigage and feeler gauges are cheap.
Well, if you don't value the parts anymore, this is partially understandable. If, however, you want another engine on the bench that could be rebuilt on a future date, you might want to reconsider this. Stuffing a connecting rod out the side of the engine block prevents any future rebuilds.

The valves seem to still function, they aren't stuck but I do wonder how well they seal.

Lap them and do a leak down test.

[motorbreath53]

This may get me flamed to death...

...not by me. Clean off the big chunks and have at it. If the motor is lunched, whats the worst that could happen. A single weekend worth of fun is worth the gaskets and RTV required to bolt it back together...

[TimS]

This sounds very familiar... Welcome!!

I'd say take your time, go through functional items of the whole car. You will enjoy it a bunch more if your not breaking down all the time, plus, as your first project, you'll learn a lot.

As far as the engine... Ugh! This about cost/benefit... If you slap it together and blow it up, can you afford to replace it? If not, it might be worth doing it right. I'm finding the heads are where the money's at, and it would seem most failure modes include head damage.

Again... Welcome. Listen to Herbie, he knows all.

[560]

Should be a fun ride. Welcome to the board.

Mike

[kyle_pc_75]

Welcome, I like the car just as it is. Personally, I'd try to find a cheap running engine and rebuild that one for the practice and experience.

Of course, I never listen to my own advice.