Tranny recommendations for IRS conversion

[ostojo]

After much deliberation as to which performance engine and tranny combos to build for my 66 beetle I'm now exploring a Subaru swap. Man for the price it would cost to put together a decent 1915-2275, or maybe even less, it appears I could put in an EJ22, get 130hp reliably, good mileage, and have the option of real heat and AC!

Anyways, back to the tranny questions. I was planning on an IRS conversion anyways. Any suggestions on what year tranny to look for and which setup of gears to swap in if I go the EJ22 route? For example, welded 3rd/4th gears, a Super-Diff, etc, but which years are the best to start with? I thought that some of the later beetle and superbeetle trannys had different ratios. I'd love to get a taller 4th gear for freeway cruising and the freeway flier engine overheating issues wouldn't be a concern with the Suby engine swap.

Or I've heard you can swap in a bus tranny? I think this complicates things too much as I think it slightly changes the location of the tranny.

The EJ22 has around 130hp stock so keep that in mind. I would probably look into some of the easier mods to bump that up to around 150. That also depends on what a VW tranny could handle when it's been beefed up a bit. So what would I need to do handle 150hp? What's the best year tranny to start with?

Any thoughts?

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Swapping in a bus tranny requires some work, not impossible to do but some work is going to be needed to be done. There is a 10° nose down mount kit available (requires some welding) and the standard over the tunnel mount (padded or solid) which requires some localized body trimming, a dropped connector (a lot of monkey motion added) for the shift rod to nose cone or moving the shifter box to the top of the transaxle. It also may require some shift rod modifications to make connections to the transaxle a bit easier. You will probably want to support the transaxle mount (aka “pickle fork”) for the additional weight and possible traction problems with the more powerful motor and abuse that can happen. Don’t forget to add motor mounts and you will have to deal with exhaust, oil filtering and wiring and how to locate and handle the cooling of the engine but it is a good swap.

As far as the 091 is concerned, there are several different shapes of bell housing that were found coupled with the 091, check with your flywheel/clutch cover requirements with the adapter manufacturer. Make sure that the starter is correct and the adapter fasteners are the correct length. The Subie conversion has been done several times and you should be able to come up with at least one of each type in the off-road forum.

If you are going to abuse the bus tranny, the “adjustments” you suggested are correct but you might want to go with something stronger (read more expensive here).

The rest of the components for a bus conversion are readily available. CVs are going to be a choice thing (based on what you planning on doing with the car) as will the stub axles and drive flanges.

Lee

[Pablo2]

I also think it would be wise to install a Type II, as long as you're converting anyhow. I'd recommend sourcing a '75 Pyramid 5-rib, the latest and strongest of the 002 Bus Boxes. You could run that trans "as is".

[Marc]

If you use a Type I trans, the later mainshaft with stronger 1st gear would be a must. Not many of those around in double-sideplate configuration (necessary if converting to swingaxle) but ALL of the single-sideplate boxes have it. These "AT" transmissions have a taller (and stronger) R&P as well but the 4th gear ratio was shortened from .88 to .93 so the overall gearing is almost the same as in earlier boxes. Late `Ghias, however, have the tall 3.875:1 R&P and the .88:1 4th, you might want to toss in a stock one and see how the gearing works for you before investing in a custom "built" trans. They're code "AO".
A late Bug trans can handle 150HP if it's not abused, but the torque of the Suby will probably break things without trying very hard. For the "final product" trans I'd plan on replacing the fine-tooth 3rd/4th gears with coarse-tooth ones (Bus or aftermarket) and upgrading the differential carrier & sideplate (the very late stock ones are better, or aftermarket)

[ostojo]

I also think it would be wise to install a Type II, as long as you're converting anyhow. I'd recommend sourcing a '75 Pyramid 5-rib, the latest and strongest of the 002 Bus Boxes. You could run that trans "as is".

Do you know what the gearing setup on these is?

[Marc]

The tallest stock gearing in a Bus trans is a 4.571:1 R&P with a .88:1 4th. Even when fitted with a .82:1 4th, the overall ratio of ~3.75:1 is about 10% shorter than the late `Ghia box. There are taller aftermarket gears available, however.

[ttriebler]

If you're swapping in an EJ22 engine and going IRS why wouldn't you swap in a reversed 5 speed subaru transmission as well? That way there's no need to purchase an adaptor plate or bellhousing, shortened sump, shortened exhaust headers or custom clutch components.

And you get a 5 speed trans perfectly matched to your engine's torque curve.

[dualaudi]

If you're swapping in an EJ22 engine and going IRS why wouldn't you swap in a reversed 5 speed subaru transmission as well? That way there's no need to purchase an adaptor plate or bellhousing, shortened sump, shortened exhaust headers or custom clutch components.

And you get a 5 speed trans perfectly matched to your engine's torque curve.

Is there a writeup on doing the EJ22 transmission swap? I know i need to purchase a reverse gearing kit, but I have no idea on costs or if I have to fabricate/modify something to bolt it in.

[ttriebler]

Take a look at the website http://www.subarugears.com for all the details and pricing.

The build area shows lots of pix of en EJ22 and 5 speed install into a beetle - exactly what you are looking at. http://www.subarugears.com/index_files/ ... Barry.html

You need to fabricate an engine mount to replace your current transmission banana mount and a new nose mount to replace your current nose mount (welded in). Plans for these are shown on the website. Pre-fabricated bolt-in mounts will soon be produced.

The kit for reversing the Subaru 5 speed includes output flanges that allow 100mm type 2 Kombi CV's and axles to bolt right up.

That's it.

[flat_iv]

I have a 74 ghia with a stock 2.2 Subaru engine and a stock ghia transmission. I don't abuse the trans and it has never been rebuilt. I have never had any problems for the past 4-5 years. My only issue is that I need a taller 4th gear because I am running a slightly lower 16" profile tire. If money was on concern I would do the Subaru trans swap.

[dunegoon]

The weight of the car after you modify it has more to do with the transaxle longevity than the mild increase in horsepower you are talking about. Think about it--- the VW van, say the 1971 1600cc, had the much stronger "type-2 IRS" because it would be expected to carry much more WEIGHT, the motor was the same as the bug for that year. Weight of the car, tire adhesion, flywheel weight, side-stepping the clutch at 8,000 RPM -- these are the things that kill transmissions. Horsepower, not so much.

How much extra do you think the EJ22 weighs complete with the adapter plate, exhaust, radiator, coolant, etc? Hanging extra weight out the back of a swingaxle car may not be the safest thing. Even in 1939, the Germans thought enough about safety to decide on a costly magnesium engine block and aluminum heads to keep the rear over-hung weight minimized.

You should consider swapping your swingaxle parts onto a later model transaxle (convert an IRS to S/A) to take advantage of newer gears, 388 R&P, etc. It's not very hard to do --- nine times out of ten, you just swap in the S/A carrier, check and adjust the ring gear back lash, and drive it! You might be able to find the IRS donor trans for $200 or less. Of course, this all assumes you are staying with the Swingaxle drivetrain.

[axtinc]

Late `Ghias, however, have the tall 3.875:1 R&P and the .88:1 4th, you might want to toss in a stock one and see how the gearing works for you before investing in a custom "built" trans. They're code "AO".

Can I put one of the late Ghia's in my 64 Ghia? What needs to be done to covert it? Thanks, Howard

[Marc]

...Can I put one of the late Ghia's in my 64 Ghia? What needs to be done to covert it? Thanks, Howard

It would depend upon the particular trans found...if it had a double-sideplate case, you'd need to replace the differential carrier with an 8-bolt swingaxle unit (your `64 is 6-bolt), and fit swingaxle sideplates. Nothing that requires major surgery to the trans, but still work which would best be left to someone with experience.
The later (`73/`74) trans cases which have only one sideplate cannot be converted to swingaxle; one would have to transplant all of the internals to a late double-sideplate case (c1972½) before using the 8-bolt swingaxle carrier and swingaxle sideplates to complete the conversion.

Or, if you were to convert the chassis to IRS, any IRS Type I trans would bolt in with no more than a nosecone/mount change - including the A0.

[axtinc]

...Can I put one of the late Ghia's in my 64 Ghia? What needs to be done to covert it? Thanks, Howard

It would depend upon the particular trans found...if it had a double-sideplate case, you'd need to replace the differential carrier with an 8-bolt swingaxle unit (your `64 is 6-bolt), and fit swingaxle sideplates. Nothing that requires major surgery to the trans, but still work which would best be left to someone with experience.
The later (`73/`74) trans cases which have only one sideplate cannot be converted to swingaxle; one would have to transplant all of the internals to a late double-sideplate case (c1972½) before using the 8-bolt swingaxle carrier and swingaxle sideplates to complete the conversion.

Or, if you were to convert the chassis to IRS, any IRS Type I trans would bolt in with no more than a nosecone/mount change - including the A0.

I would love an IRS but don't want to change the chassis and I understand the reto fit is a lot of work.