Engine repair help

[driek1949]

I had my 75 bug rebuilt several years ago and this last
summer the head bolts came loose. I have torn the head
off cause I wanted to check out the overall condition and
noted that there is no head gaskets between the heads
and the jugs. Is this a normal set up, or did they just screw up
when they rebuilt this? This is a stock engine 74 or 75 bug.

Also I noted that 1 of the studs that hold the heads on was
twisted off and who ever rebuilt this just stuck it back on with
just a minimal amount of thread engagement. As long as I have
it torn down, I want to replace the stud. Not chromed or anything,
and is 8mm x 235mm(aprox) The question is, where
can I get a single stud?

Thanks

Dave

[KarenTheBug]

Most of what I found online don't give you just a single stud, it's a whole kit. If the last time your engine was rebuilt it was done with at least this one half-assed thing (plus the gasket), and you're already pulling the heads off, it may be worth doing a whole kit and inspecting the rest of it.

And gaskets are never optional. VW engineers weren't in the habit of using extraneous parts just for the heck of it the fact that it runs without the gasket is a testament to how robust these little cars are.

[driek1949]

So, are you saying that a stock engine would have a head gasket?

Dave

[KarenTheBug]

Fail ... was thinking of manifold gaskets. Disregard stupidity.

I stand by checking all the studs though, after finding one that was screwed up. Seeing that would make me worry about what else is lurking.

[Stray Catalyst]

I agree - replace the whole set if possible, it's not like they're all that expensive. You may find that one of them won't screw in, due to the threaded insert having pulled out of the case - if that has happened, then you're looking at a lot more work... as the case will need to go to the machine shop, so you'll have to rebuild the engine. This isn't as bad as it would be with a more modern engine, but it's still considerable work. Depending on how much you have to spend, and what kind of driving you plan to do, it might be cheaper to find a turn-key engine on Craigslist or similar at that point. Where are you located?

Stray

[KarenTheBug]

I'd still like to see the case get repaired if possible ... they don't make these things anymore, better to repair than toss whenever you can. If it's really FUBAR, harvest what's still good for TheSamba / Craigslist.

[driek1949]

I agree - replace the whole set if possible, it's not like they're all that expensive. You may find that one of them won't screw in, due to the threaded insert having pulled out of the case - if that has happened, then you're looking at a lot more work... as the case will need to go to the machine shop, so you'll have to rebuild the engine. This isn't as bad as it would be with a more modern engine, but it's still considerable work. Depending on how much you have to spend, and what kind of driving you plan to do, it might be cheaper to find a turn-key engine on Craigslist or similar at that point. Where are you located?

Stray

I am near Madison WI. The studs are pitted from rust also, so I think that I
will just replace the whole set, since they did loosen up they may
be stretched also.

BTW, is that your observation that a stock motor (1974) probably would not have
a head gasket between the heads and jugs?

Dave

[volksbugly]

Just a quick note on maintenance, when you change your oil you should tighten up your studs at least every other time. Well maybe I am over anal, but that is what I do.

[Weaponer]

Some people might use a copper gasket but most don't use any. When I had flathead Harleys, in order to use the copper gaskets over and over, I would coat the gaskets with aluminum paint. I would look at each can and see the aluminum content percentage. I would buy the paint with the largest percentage. Then without stirring or shaking the can, I would absorb the solvent that had risen to the top and left all the aluminum paste at the bottom. So even with my VW engines, I paint a little ring around the interior of the heads before I install them. I bought my last can of paint 25 years ago and it is still usable. My 1/2 pint can is XO Rust, XO-10 Aluminum. You probably don't have to do what I do, but for me it is a habit that I've done for 40 years.

[driek1949]

Some people might use a copper gasket but most don't use any. When I had flathead Harleys, in order to use the copper gaskets over and over, I would coat the gaskets with aluminum paint. I would look at each can and see the aluminum content percentage. I would buy the paint with the largest percentage. Then without stirring or shaking the can, I would absorb the solvent that had risen to the top and left all the aluminum paste at the bottom. So even with my VW engines, I paint a little ring around the interior of the heads before I install them. I bought my last can of paint 25 years ago and it is still usable. My 1/2 pint can is XO Rust, XO-10 Aluminum. You probably don't have to do what I do, but for me it is a habit that I've done for 40 years.

That is an interesting idea. I wonder if there is a product on the
market that I could spread a thin coat on. Maybe something that
is designed for the high temps.? Just seems like there should be
some sort of sealing surface there?

[driek1949]

Just a quick note on maintenance, when you change your oil you should tighten up your studs at least every other time. Well maybe I am over anal, but that is what I do.

Probably a very good idea! Being Proactive with maintenance
is always better than picking up the pieces!

[Jim Ed]

Some people might use a copper gasket but most don't use any. When I had flathead Harleys, in order to use the copper gaskets over and over, I would coat the gaskets with aluminum paint. I would look at each can and see the aluminum content percentage. I would buy the paint with the largest percentage. Then without stirring or shaking the can, I would absorb the solvent that had risen to the top and left all the aluminum paste at the bottom. So even with my VW engines, I paint a little ring around the interior of the heads before I install them. I bought my last can of paint 25 years ago and it is still usable. My 1/2 pint can is XO Rust, XO-10 Aluminum. You probably don't have to do what I do, but for me it is a habit that I've done for 40 years.

If you add those copper head gaskets, it will affect your valve adjustment. You might have to start using valve lash caps.

[mlrailguy]

I have built several engines for offroad. Never used gaskets between jugs and case, just the black permatex. Most offroaders won't use head gaskets either, but I prefer to use the copper head gaskets on my engines. It helps keep the heads from sticking too badly to the jugs.

[Marc]

I vote NO on copper head gaskets. They have their place in some extremely limited applications, but yours is not one of them - they're just one more possible point of failure, if they were necessary the factory would've used them.
There are several bad choices in 8mm stud kits on the market right now, so "new" doesn't guarantee quality. I'd rather run a good set of used original-German ones with 200,000mi on them than some of the crap that's out there. I can probably fix you up with a good-used single OEM stud if you want to get by on the cheap. Otherwise, expect to pay around $100 for a good-quality new set.