SACO Type 4 upright conversion

[JHHeiger]

I'm looking at the one piece type 4 upright fiberglass center mounted alternator conversion shroud available from SACO German Auto. Anyone have any experience with the fit, and cooling capability?

[jim.fernish]

I have one that was never used used, decide to go another way. Willing to sell it, PM if your interested in buying it.

[JHHeiger]

Let me also ask - since this sort of shroud will require a remote oil cooler, can you mount it in front of the fan opening? I never see that method in magazines, but did it with success in the 70's.

[NextGen]

I have not seen a SACO fanhouing but it sounds like something FAT Performance use in their off road race cars. It that is the case then I would think it would be more for racing. Usually that type does not have internal vanes for directing the air, it was made for an all out pedal to the floor race car that will get max air from the MPH.

Again that is the FAT unit. Not exactly for daily driving.

[JHHeiger]

thanks for the feedback Joe.

I tried fashioning a conversion from the 'Cali' method, but my fabrication skills fall short. I'm looking at the one piece 'cause I can't mess that up.

How about the cooler in front of the shroud opening? Old School??

[Type 4 Unleashed]

I'm looking at the one piece type 4 upright fiberglass center mounted alternator conversion shroud available from SACO German Auto. Anyone have any experience with the fit, and cooling capability?

I don't know of or have any experience with the fan setup, but I did just take a look at it, and to me it looks like a one piece center mount shroud with Type lV head covers that uses the Type 1 Alt & Fan. And that is not that much different from some of the Cali-conversions I have seen pictured.
They make a Type 1 one piece center mount fiberglass fan also and in the discription it says "Baffled For Max Air Flow", I would ask if the Type lV shroud is also baffled ?

So, as to how well a Cali-conversion cools a Type lV, it's a widly used option so maybe some one will chime in that is using one.

As for a cooler in front of the fan, yes it's Lazy Old School, I see a slight problem, the air that is drawn thru the cooler has been heated to some degree, and would not cool the motor as well as it would had it not been drawn thru the cooler.

I am sure the cooler could be mounted at a better location and it could even have it's own little cooling fan, for not to much more trouble than mounting it on the shroud ?

[dunegoon]

I have been running the upright Porsche fan shroud kit on my 2840 cc type-4 sandrail for many years and thousands of off-road miles. They work well, at least in the open air where there is all kinds of room. I run an adapter where the factory cooler would fit and plumb the oil through -8 hoses to a remote cooler with an electric fan and electric thermostat. The oil thermostat built into the block still functions also. Using three methods of temperature measurement (none of them perfect), I have never seen over 325 degrees F. I have VDO thermocouple gauge on #3 plug with the reading verified using boiling water. The VDO gauge is not marked well, it is hard to read. I carry a 300 and 350 deg temperature crayons in my bag, and I have a good quality infra-red hand-held meter. So, I'm pretty sure my head temperature is under control. Additionally, I run a Scat type-4 deep sump which probably helps too. The oil sump never gets over 180 degrees and is actually too cold much of the time. This is not hot enough to keep moisture out of the oil.

All that said, if I started over, I'd try to make a type-1 conversion or a DTM work because the Porsche alternator, fan ring and the fiberglass shroud is quite expensive and doesn't fit all that well either. There is probably way more work getting the Porsche ring to fit into a saddle I had to make in the engine block than you would ever encounter with the other two solutions.

The ring and fan made by Bernie Bergman is probably 20 pounds heaver then the Porsche parts. Good if you need more rear weight bias!

[NextGen]

All the guys seem to be on the same page. I also agree not to put the cooler in the fan intake.
The Kafer cup guys run a cooler under the front bumper. A lot of Pipe, ha.
Or as some guys do, cooler with electric fan.

Is it a Porsche Fan??? That setup will wind up being very expensive!
The Cali Style even if you have to buy, lets say the cylinder covers and Alt stand will be less expensive and a known reliable daily driver.
A jump up will be the DTM. You have to look at what you pay up front and never look back as to getting problems after the build, like overheating in traffic or a extremely expensive Porsche Fan.

[JHHeiger]

Thanks for everyones expert opinions. Another issue I was trying to improve with the centered fan and 'ramped' edges of the fan shroud was clearance for the Empi 44's. When trying to fit the shroud pieces around the case, all looked well until I bolted on the manifolds/carbs and they hit on one side.
Has anyone used 3/16 aluminum stock to build a spacer for the carb manifold, not unlike the bakelite spacer on the FI manifold? 3/16 is about all I'd need I'm thinking.

[JHHeiger]

And I spoke to German Auto. They suggested that the shroud was designed with shorter cylinder side coverage and may be more suited for an open engine bay, like in a buggy.

[NextGen]

I agree with what German Auto said.

As you know i use the T-1 36hp fanhousing and also was using 194 porsche Manifolds. loved the look, nice cast alum with cool holes. ONly problem was they were too tall and brought way out, so much so I could not adj the carbs.

I went to ugly shorter cast iron manifolds and got the perfect setup. The only problem was I now had to move my hex bar cross linkage to make it work.

So, get it right so you don't have to do it twice.

[dave t]

Looks like this shroud had the oil cooler in front of the fan. , , , This has a few vanes. .

[Piledriver]

CSP sells a setup similar to a cali conversion, but silly $$$.
It would be a better cooling option.

Does anyone else make JUST the FG "tins"?

I'd do another, but if you could just buy the cylinder covers everything else (including the gen stand) is pretty straightforward.
(You'd have to make the genstand to "fit" the tins rather than the other way around, but it should be a wash)

The oil cooler in front of the fan is a great way to get a really hot engine.
It really didn't work in the `70s, you just didn't have any instrumentation in the 70s, and it didn't blow up immediately

[westypoo]

i have the very same shroud, i put internal vanes in it to try and help with the air. these fan shrouds ARE ONLY FOR USE WITH OFF ROAD APPLICATION! trust me. as i type this, im in the middle of doing a cali upright conversion. while driving it, my oil temps got into the 280* range. only for a short time, but after about 5 times of that, i said screw this fan shroud. i then gathered the need parts to do the cali conversion. yes i tried it both with a big oil cooler, and i then fitted a stock type4 cooler in the OE location, then made a shroud over the oil cooler and fed a squirrel fan to it, still didnt cool the oil. and i dont have a head temp gauge, and im kinda glad i didnt at the time cause if i did, i'd be shitting my pants... although i do plan on buying a sweet air craft grade CHT gauge that can read all 4 cylnders at the came time. super spendy, but worth it. go cali upright, DTM shroud from jake, or possiably the porsche fan shroud route, but i have no knowlage to back up the porsche fan shroud. hope this helps!

[Piledriver]

I keep thinking to myself that if I ever retire I'll start popping of high temp epoxy/FG T4 conversion "tins" for a hobby.

SOMEONE should be making these, they can't possibly cost remotely what CSP charges for them even if gold plated CF.
If you could pop decent units off for reasonable $$ they would move enough to cover beer money at least.

On one hand, ~$500 with a matching alt stand is a lot less than the available alternatives that work, and they are good quality.
OTOH IIRC Jakes cast DTM stands are still <$100, so $400 for 2 simple FRP "tins" and a pulley seems VERY steep.
(I would NOT bet Jakes DTM stand would work with CSP tins, but you could (most likely) make a decent setup around Jakes stand.)

They don't require anywhere NEAR the design work of a properly working fan housing, VW already did that hard work for you.