Safari Turbo/Megasquirt Fuel Injection Project

[turbobaja]

I'm with Lee on that FW, I don't think I'd bolt up another clutch until you at least get another couple educated opinions on it. At the very least I'd clean it off with some brake clean and a scotchbrite pad. I don't see any large hot spots or grooving, but maybe some folks in the Transaxle or Engine Rebuild forum could lend some experienced advice. It almost looks like there's been some slight seepage from the gland nut radially, possibly contaminating the disc sightly? Things have definitely been getting hot in there.

Have you checked your endplay?

[Clonebug]

I'm with Lee on that FW, I don't think I'd bolt up another clutch until you at least get another couple educated opinions on it. At the very least I'd clean it off with some brake clean and a scotchbrite pad. I don't see any large hot spots or grooving, but maybe some folks in the Transaxle or Engine Rebuild forum could lend some experienced advice. It almost looks like there's been some slight seepage from the gland nut radially, possibly contaminating the disc sightly? Things have definitely been getting hot in there.

Have you checked your endplay?

hmmmmm.... Endplay.....

I don't know if I dare with this $250.00 Samba engine. I have been using it for over 5 years now and it has taken everything I have given it.

I might have to check it.

The seepage is dry and could have come from the Neverseize I used on the pilot shaft on the original install.

When I checked the flywheel it didn't seem to have any heat marks on it but the camera flash might color it that way now. If it was heat checked it was that way when I got it 5 years ago since it looks the same as when I originally installed it.
Can any machine shop clean it up??? Or do I need to find one that does VW stuff.

Clonebug

[turbobaja]

End play is just something that's easy to measure and kinda gives you an idea of how the thrust bearing is doing. Since you'll be pulling the FW to replace the seal, now is a good time to measure it so you know what to shoot for on reassembly. With the FW off you can get in there and try to wiggle the thrust bearing in the case to see how it's fitting (hopefully still nice and tight in the case). Then see how many shims you've got in there and what kind of condition they're in (at least 3, but can have more). Then when you torque the gland nut back down (I'd shoot for 350-400ft/lbs) measure your endplay again. If you're endplay measures within wear specs before disassembly, you should be fine to either reassemble as-is or swap shims to reduce the endplay slightly. If it measures a little on the loose side to begin with, you're more likely to be looking for a thrust bearing that's ~loose in the case....probably not a safe bet to continue boosting your $250 powerplant at that point . Let's hope for the best .

I would imagine any decent machine shop that resurfaces flywheels can handle the job. Just make sure they maintain the 21.0mm depth from PP mounting surface to the clutch wear surface or the clamping forces of the new PP could be affected. If the depth measures good now, and the surface cleans up well, you could be just fine. I'd still post a pic in one of the other forums just to have some peace of mind on it.

[Clonebug]

I checked the end play on this engine when I bought it and it was in spec at that time.

If it is not in spec anymore then it will still get boosted until it blows.....literally...

It has had low oil pressure at warm idle for 5 years now and has been very good to me. It owes me nothing.

I do have a late model case that has a crank and cam in it that I am hoping to build into something down the road.
If the $250 engine turns into junk I will find some rods and P/C's to put in that one and run it till it goes.

I guess I could check the late model case I have and if good swap the P/C's over to that one and just buy some new rods.

I have never built a VW engine so that would be a whole new world for me again........

I will look into getting the flywheel cleaned up tomorrow if I don't work.

I sold one of my unobtainium Formuling Steering wheels and adapters so I am flush with a bit of cash..

Clonebug

[CobraJet]

....
I sold one of my unobtainium Formuling Steering wheels and adapters so I am flush with a bit of cash..

Clonebug

What exactly does this look like? Got any pics?

[Ol'fogasaurus]

CJ, look here, this is the ad for it.viewtopic.php?f=6&t=138004&p=1095852&hi ... l#p1095852

Art, you have a spanky brand new disc and a “Oooo, its nice” clutch cover, finish the job correctly and do the flywheel and the T/O bearing at the same time. You'll not regret it, only the cash reserve has diminished some but you will thank me in the morning.

I had noticed the weep around the gland nut but it looked like it was short of the flywheel. Since the clutch cover and the flywheel have similar marking I thought that the weeping was not much, if any, part of the problem. Usually weeping shows up in the bell housing and only on the flywheel side of the disc I don’t think what the stain is had a whole lot to do with the disc frying (I’ve seen and have had the cook worse. The last one was so smelly that the garage smelled like it for a couple of years). I think you just got to thee point power wise that you simply over powered the clutch and for that feat you get a big “atta Boy”, see if you can do this one too” (distruction by riding the clutch doesn’t count).

Lee

[Clonebug]

Update,

I got my new intake boots in the mail yesterday so I went to work installing them today.



Let me just say.......They were TIGHT!!!!!!!

I got them on with a whole lot of choice words and wrench throwing but they are on and I doubt I will be able to blow these out.





I checked my end play and I am not going to worry about it ..... I lost some sleep over it but what the heck... it is a $250 engine and it doesn't owe me anything. I have gotten 5 years of enjoyment out of it and if it blows so be it.
End play is 0.011
I am going to put a new flywheel seal in it and re-torque the fly wheel to an ungodly high setting, install my new clutch and pressure plate, which should be here by Friday and drive it.
I have all kinds of great ideas of what I would like to do but until I get my jetting done with the new found fuel I am just going to go with what I got.
My work season is coming to an end so extra money will be hard to come by.

I can't wait to feel the pull with that new clutch. I might even have to try a dyno run......

Clonebug

[vdubinluvin]

yes they're tight but we like them that way......

good luck on the rest of the build!



Gilbert@dougs buggs-n-bunnies

[Clonebug]

Update,

I have good news and bad news. The good news first.

My new pressure plate has arrived from CB Performance and it is a beauty!!!



That with my new Super disc form TurboBaja and I am set to go as soon as my flywheel oring shows up from my buddy Foggy.



I picked up a 3/4 drive breaker bar from my brother and finally broke loose the flywheel bolt using a 4 foot piece of angle on the flywheel to hold it still and a 2.5 foot piece of pipe on the breaker bar.

Now for the bad news......

I removed the flywheel and it was quite obvious that the flywheel seal was not what was causing the leak.

What was causing the leak was the dreaded "H" case weakness that Nick was preaching about.
I am humbled....

Here is what happened.



A closer shot.



I highly doubt that this was caused by the turbo since it has been leaking from this area for a few years already. Could it have made it worse???
I wouldn't doubt it.

I did drive it for a 200 mile round trip when I had the Kadrons on it and it was running a bit lean on the mains. I think I did some damage to it because it lost about 10 lbs. of oil pressure about half way. I had no way to change the mains so I nursed it slower the rest of the way up and then went only 60 mph on the way back to keep it from getting too deep into the main jets.
But the damage was done. I bumped the mains up to 140's and it fixed the leaness.

I now need to make a decision.....Do I go until it blows?

The crack looks awfully close to the oil passage.

Or do I rip it apart and use the late case I have on the engine stand that has a crank and cam in it. I can't see anything wrong with it... there are no cracks or flaws that I can see and the crank even looks good. All the rod journals seem to be nice and smooth.
I doesn't have any rods with it so my thought was open the case and keep everything in order.
Order a set of unitech rods from CB or someone else since CB is out of stock. These rods seem like a good deal for the price. I could get some rod bearings and clean it really good then take the barrels and pistons off the "H" case and install on the late model case for a nice engine for cheap.
These barrels and pistons only have about 20,000 to 23,000 miles on them.

Tell me what you guys think. I would like to know.


Clonebug

[Onceler]

Nooooooooo!......that's a bummer. I don't have any advice, just waiting to see your next move.
If it were me I'd build the late case and put in a counterweighted crank and balance everything......wait a minute.....that's what I would do if I had the money, the real me would just swap everything to the late case and continue boostin'

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Art, I think you are asking for problems if you try to make the old engine last longer especially now that you know about the crack (and it’s a biggie). Also the leak could end up taking out your new clutch and components and that is not what you want to do. You are going to be buzzing the engine w/a turbo so spend some money now rather than spend more money later (sorry, I know it’s not my wallet that I am talking about).

Switching components from one block to another is not something I recommend but it could/should be doable; just be careful that you don't take the new block out if there is a problem based on the old engine. I think I would go with new bearings all the way around as going from one block to another is usually not a good idea. Check the new block w/a straight edge; mike the main journals and power flush the engine to ensure that the oil passages are clear.

The cheapest thing to do would be to mike the balanced crank to check for out of round and throw taper and have someone look at it to see if it is reusable surface wise. The balanced rods should be easy to check to see if they are OK and not twisted and should be mike’d to ensure that they are not oversized. I think I would go with new bearings as going from one block to another is usually not a good idea. If you can replace the bolts (I forget how the VW engine is rod bolt wise) replace them preferably with new (not stretched) or better bolts (remember the turbo). You should be able to pull the wrist pins w/o taking the pistons all the way out of the cylinder which if things are OK is a cheap way of doing it, not good but may get you by for a while (mark cylinder numbers on the rods and piston assemblies to ensure things go back in balance).

A new or regrind cam and lifters would be the way I would go w/something like this as you are transferring parts from one block/case to another which may not be exactly the same because of tolerance differences between blocks/cases.

If it is in the budget, full flow the case at least and maybe a sump.

The key here is making sure that the old parts are in good shape and worth putting together w/fresh parts. Think hard on a new oil pump (I’ve seen someone get by with a used pump but it may be cheaper in the long run to replace it now); don’t forget to clean out the oil relief pistons and bores. Don’t forget to check the length of the fuel pump rod unless you are using an electric pump (I forget).

Some thoughts on what you asked.

Lee

[miniman82]

What was causing the leak was the dreaded "H" case weakness that Nick was preaching about.
I am humbled....

Hate to say I told ya so...

Looks like it's the typical one behind #3, is this case deep studded? Mine broke on the other side, from a case saver to a main stud.

I moved all my parts over from the old case to new, but had to replace the mains since the original case was on a .020 linebore. Wasn't a big deal, that new aluminum case is friggin bulletproof!

[Clonebug]

I wasn't going to use any of the bearings from the old engine.

If the crank and cam and bearings that are in the new case are within spec there should be no reason not to use them correct?
I would buy new rods and rod bearings since those are missing from the case I have on the stand.
So basically I would buy a set of rods and bearings.
Disassemble the new case and mic the crank and cam, check the lifters, check the oil pump, if worn then check the whole engine out. If in like new condition I would disassemble and clean, maybe full flow and get a new oil pump then assemble with new rods and use my existing pistons and barrels unless they are worn and have out of round issues and/or ring problems.
I had no venting problems with the old engine even though I had nothing for catching any oil misting. I didn't even have a hose running from the filler connection to the aircleaner like a stock engine had.
It didn't seem to have any blowby or any compression leakage when running at all.

I'll have to look into it. I might have to wait until after Christmas since my time is going to be booked up for the next couple days.

Clonebug

[Clonebug]

What was causing the leak was the dreaded "H" case weakness that Nick was preaching about.
I am humbled....

Hate to say I told ya so...

Looks like it's the typical one behind #3, is this case deep studded?

I highly doubt anything was ever done to this case and I for sure doubt the case is deep studded.

It owes me nothing.

I have driven trouble free for 23,000 plus miles and it has never quit on me or let me down so for $250.00 it was a pretty good deal.

I should maybe see if I can find another el cheapo engine.....

Clonebug

[Ol'fogasaurus]

I wasn't going to use any of the bearings from the old engine.

If the crank and cam and bearings that are in the new case are within spec there should be no reason not to use them correct?
I would buy new rods and rod bearings since those are missing from the case I have on the stand.
So basically I would buy a set of rods and bearings.
Disassemble the new case and mic the crank and cam, check the lifters, check the oil pump, if worn then check the whole engine out. If in like new condition I would disassemble and clean, maybe full flow and get a new oil pump then assemble with new rods and use my existing pistons and barrels unless they are worn and have out of round issues and/or ring problems.
I had no venting problems with the old engine even though I had nothing for catching any oil misting. I didn't even have a hose running from the filler connection to the aircleaner like a stock engine had.
It didn't seem to have any blowby or any compression leakage when running at all.

I'll have to look into it. I might have to wait until after Christmas since my time is going to be booked up for the next couple days.

Clonebug

If you are planning on this make sure that the lifters are on the same lobes as they were int he old engine as the wear patterns will then match one for one; if not, you could have a flat cam in a very quick time frame.

Have the main bearings visually inspected and miked for wear if you plan on re-using them in the other block.

Lee