FI Build Up - Vee Dub Nut Build #2

[Vee Dub Nut]

Hey everyone... I'm back to build another EFI setup! Thought I'd post up another build thread for folks to follow along.

This time I'll be building on my new 2276 engine that I built after selling off my first EFI/turbo system last year. Here is my old thread for reference: (http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic ... 3&t=128778).

I plan to do a lot of things similar, but a few key things different in this new build. I will again be using a single throttle body, but not the German plenum/tb. No real reason other than to try something different, and the right deal coming along for what I'm going to be running this time. I'd still highly recommend any of Mario's kits and the German plenum/tb set up, as it did work well for me and Mario is a stand up guy.

I will again be doing a blow through turbo, but figured this thread will be more about the fuel injection, so I put it here as opposed to the forced induction forum. I plan to keep my static CR about a point higher on this engine versus my old one, this and the longer stroke should help keep my off boost response where I want it. That was my biggest complaint of my old 1915T (soggy off boost) and probably why I dismantled it and sold everything off to build my stroker motor.

I have been running my 2276 NA/carbed since about March this year, so it should just be getting good and broken in now. The engine was a beast and a lot of fun to drive. I'm a little OCD I guess and can't leave anything alone for too long. I started to miss all the cool techy stuff that EFI allowed me to do with the car, so decided to do it all again. Here are the motor specs:

Autolinea AL super case
82x94
CB Forged Crank
Forged H-beam rods
Forged Flywheel 12lb
AA Forged Pistons
Mahle Jugs
CB 2288 (K8) cam - 256 @ 0.050", 0.529 lift w/1.4's
Steve Tim's STGII heads - 42x37.5
CB 1.4 rockers
Manton Pushrods
Etc...
Etc...

As for the fuel injection, I have a MS2 w/3.0 board on its way from DIY. Will be using a relay board again to keep everything nice and tidy. I'll be trying my hand at building the board this time, so it should be an adventure. Made sure to get a STIM kit so I can test everything along the way. Planning on using another EDIS system, but am contemplating direct driving the coil this time. I like the extra features that come with direct driving the coils (spark cut rev limit, two step, etc). Will be using the standard GM sensors, but thinking I may try putting the CLT sensor in the oil sump this time. Thoughts on this? I had it on the 3-4 valve cover before. Also got another LC-1 to use for AFR monitoring. Liked my last one and the price was good on the kits.

For the induction, I was able to work out a deal with Volksnut on the forums for a system he had built a while back. I previously admired the system, and was able to strike up a deal with him for all his hardware. It uses a Ford throttle body on a custom T style intake system and welded and ported CB FI end-castings. With the exception of needing to add a bung for the CLT sensor, I should be able to bolt everything up and use as is. Hopefully he doesn't mind, but here is a pic of everything installed on his car:



Took advantage of a break in the heat yesterday to get the motor pulled to start prepping for everything.

[Vee Dub Nut]

Made a little more progress today. Got the engine dressed down and ready to get cleaned up. I had an issue before building my larger breather box, I manged to overflow the small one a couple of times which allowed the cooling fan to suck up all the oil and blow it all over everything. Got a nice oily coat on the entire engine. Oh well, easy to clean now.



Also got my FI hardware in today. Overall everything looks great. Going to have to weld in a bung for the IAT sensor. I'll also sand blast everything and put a fresh coat of paint on it.

Here is the main part of the intake and the throttle body. The TB is from a V6 Ferd...



Here is the charge pipe, end castings, and FPR.



Got a lot of cleaning up to do on everything. Went ahead and started my "to do" list so I can start attacking everything one by one. Got most of my other parts sold off, only need to get a few more moved so I can finish buying the rest of what I need to finish this project.

[supaninja]

This going to be an awesome build! You never said what your old CR was. Volksnuts old setup looks really clean. If you don't already have the EDIS then definitely go the direct fire route, it's friggin awesome and less crap in the engine bay, plus with that monster you can then have a ign cut rev limit, 2 step, and flat shifting...giggity!

[Vee Dub Nut]

This going to be an awesome build! You never said what your old CR was. Volksnuts old setup looks really clean. If you don't already have the EDIS then definitely go the direct fire route, it's friggin awesome and less crap in the engine bay, plus with that monster you can then have a ign cut rev limit, 2 step, and flat shifting...giggity!

Thanks! I did admire his setup when he posted it back when he built it, so I jumped on the opportunity to pick it up for my new build.

My old 1915T engine was set at 7.3:1 with a 110 cam. This engine I plan to run at 8.5:1 (running the K8). I'm not planning crazy amounts of boost, so keeping the static CR up should keep the engine more driveable.

I ran EDIS on my last build and it was great. Wanting to take it a step further with direct fire this time for all the goodies.

[56speedster]

Definitely will be an awesome build! I look forward to your updates.

I'm running the CLT in the sump and have not run into any problems. I used to have installed at the full flow filter but when I went with the bigger t3/t4 turbo, the new intake stole that real estate so I had to make a move. I went with Mario's new trigger wheel and sensor at the same time for the clean stealth look.

[Vee Dub Nut]

If you don't already have the EDIS then definitely go the direct fire route, it's friggin awesome and less crap in the engine bay, plus with that monster you can then have a ign cut rev limit, 2 step, and flat shifting...giggity!

Ok.. so doing some reading on the mods needed for MSII to direct fire two coils, looks like I would loose PWM control on the injectors? That won't work for me as I have low-Z injectors I'm planning on using. Am I missing something? Guess I could get some injector resistors, but I don't really want to have to go that route.

Source:
http://www.microsquirt.info/dualspark.htm which was linked from here http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/vb921.htm

[Vee Dub Nut]

Definitely will be an awesome build! I look forward to your updates.

I'm running the CLT in the sump and have not run into any problems. I used to have installed at the full flow filter but when I went with the bigger t3/t4 turbo, the new intake stole that real estate so I had to make a move. I went with Mario's new trigger wheel and sensor at the same time for the clean stealth look.

Cool.. I plan to put the CLT sensor in the T3 block off plate I think

[supaninja]

If you don't already have the EDIS then definitely go the direct fire route, it's friggin awesome and less crap in the engine bay, plus with that monster you can then have a ign cut rev limit, 2 step, and flat shifting...giggity!

Ok.. so doing some reading on the mods needed for MSII to direct fire two coils, looks like I would loose PWM control on the injectors? That won't work for me as I have low-Z injectors I'm planning on using. Am I missing something? Guess I could get some injector resistors, but I don't really want to have to go that route.

Source:
http://www.microsquirt.info/dualspark.htm which was linked from here http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/vb921.htm

your looking at the microsquirt stuff.

here you go, you might have to scroll down, I don't know if you want to run dual coils or stick coils http://msextra.com/doc/ms2extra/MS2-Ext ... htm#2coils

here is all the info of the features on MS2 with MSextra http://msextra.com/doc/index.html

[Vee Dub Nut]

Ah.. thanks sir!

[Chip Birks]

Sounds like a fun new project! Good luck with the MS build. Just take your time and follow the directions, you'll do fine. How big did you go on the new injectors? What are your HP goals with this setup? Hows the baby?

[Vee Dub Nut]

Sounds like a fun new project! Good luck with the MS build. Just take your time and follow the directions, you'll do fine. How big did you go on the new injectors? What are your HP goals with this setup? Hows the baby?

Yea, the MS build is what I'm most nervous about, as thats new for me. That being said, I'm fairly handy and think that given patience, I can pull it off fine. The rest of the build, hardware speaking, is a cake walk.

I've got a set of 55lb/hr low-z injectors to start with, I'll see how they work out (calculator suggests they should be good to 290hp). I may end up changing them down the road, but they came along with Volksnuts parts and I plan to use them for now. My goals are a little undefined, I'm not looking to make huge power, and don't ever intend to track the car. Its purely a fun street car to screw around with. That being said, NA I think the motor was in the 175 neighborhood, so I don't think 250hp at the crank should be terribly difficult to achieve. I'm going to go easy on boost to start with like I did previously, and then step up from there. I will be looking into water injection at a minimum after I'm up and operational (I ran up to 9lbs w/o any cooling previously), and potentially an air/water inter-cooler, but both of these will be done at a later date. I intend to get up and operational first on lower boost levels, then go from there.

Baby boy is good... I can't believe he's already over a year old. Baby girl will be joining us at the end of Jan

[Vee Dub Nut]

No cool pictures or anything... but have been making steady progress at the engine prep:

Washed everything down real well, pulled heads and installed 0.040" copper head gaskets (static CR 8.5:1), installed new pushrod tubes (good bye leaky scat tubes), RnR deep sump to re-gasket and drill & tap for turbo drain, pulled distributor drive, pulled off crank pulley to mod for 36-1 wheel (hopefully get that done in a few days), sand blasted intake, having 3/8 NPT coupling welded after TB for IAT sensor, sandblasted 36-1 wheel and coil bracket, and pulled off clutch for upgrade, drilled and tapped T3 oil block off for CLT sensor (figured I'd try here instead of the valve cover this time).

I also got all my goodies from DIYAT in the mail (including the parts to mod for direct coil control). Laid out everything on the spare bedroom table, this is where I will tackle the assembly. Printed off and bound all of the instruction/assembly guides for MS-II/Extra to be ready. Hope to drop by Radio Shack and pick up some solder and screw terminal strips this weekend so I can start working on those goodies.

I've really have until next April before the car HAS to be back on the road (Tx VW Classic), but I've sort of set a goal to get as close as I can before the end of the year. I think it could be possible to do, but still have a long way to go.

[supaninja]

sweet dude, I hope to see it at the Tx classic!

[Vee Dub Nut]

Been working on the car off and on making some progress. Not terribly fast though as I've been busy with the kiddo and traveling for work.

Anyways, got some more of the engine prep completed.

Installed a new berg o-ringed pump (didn't like the fit of the pump I was using before, so thought I'd change it out while I had easy access). Also re-gasketed my deep sump and drilled and taped it for the turbo drain.







I also sandblasted down all the intake piping. Welded on a bung for the IAT sensor and have started repainting everything. Have the first good coat on right now, I'll sand on it a bit and put a few more coats on before I'm done. I'm already planning my next intake system. I plan on only using this plumbing temporarily as I want to re-layout everything sometime in the near future and plumb in a air/water intercooler. But for now, gonna run the intake as Volksnut built it.



Parts hanging from my paint drying rack LOL. Also harvested a test stand wiring harness that was being tossed at work and got some good wiring to use from it.



Also been thinking off and on for a long time about making the rear apron removable. I've always hesitated because I didn't want to mess up the paint on the car (its not great back there, but pretty nice overall). Anyways, got to looking everything over real well while the engine was out and decided to bite the bullet. This will make it MUCH easier to service the engine in the future.

Anyways.. with some drilling of the spot welds and a careful cut or two, off it came



The apron looks pretty decent still, but the wings where I drilled the spot welds are rough. I also had the spot weld drill jump a time or two and scratch the surface. My plan was to cut off the wings and use four Dzus fasteners to attach the apron back to the car. Problem is my apron on the left side was pretty beat and has some bondo in it which will make it hard to install the Dzus fasteners. I think I'm going to try to find a replacement apron to fix up my mounting, then just have it sprayed to match the car.



The wifey kept saying "poor car" LOL





Anyways, got a plan of attack for the weekend to get more accomplished.

Also got a load of CB parts waiting for me to pick up at our next local show from a great supplier here in central Texas (Steve-O @ Central Texas Autowerks). He got me hooked up with a hideaway header, wastegate, Kennedy STG II clutch, and some other goodies.

Also been talking to Shag about a turbo. Think we have it narrowed down (t3/t4b s-trim, stg II turbine w/ 0.48 housing), so now I'm just saving up my monies so I can hopefully give him the go ahead to build it sometime in November. I'm wanting a quick spool for lots of usable street power/torque. Not looking for peak hp, just a nice strong driver.

Anyways.. all I got for now.

[56speedster]

Lookin' good! I don't know if you would be interested in doing this or not but if you haven't opened up some of the passages inside the aluminum case, now would be a good time to do it and it wouldn't cost anything.