67 bug feels unsafe

[GARRICK.CLARK1]

FJ. I recently found that the 28mm torsion bar spline on the driver side is a tad smaller than the spline mount inside the tube on my bug chassis. Creating free UPWARD movement of the spring plate OF 10MM until the bar takes over.
So my title of BUG FEELS UNSAFE.... This could well be the main factor...plus the other above toe in toe out issue.
Also the inner rear bush was egg shape, And I had to tig weld a sleave onto the aftermarket spring plate to enable the new inner bush to fit with out any play as well.

[risk]

Sounds like a lot of power for the stock bushing setup.. have you considered some solid spring plate retainers? I have some old Jaycee on my 67 that I modified to be greasable. This made the car much less squirrely when accelerating. I also had to elongate the spring plate slots to get enough toe adjustment.

One big thing on a swing axle is when you go over a hump in the road (like the one you mentioned), or get on the brakes at high speed.. the rear suspension unloads and you get a bunch of positive camber, and toe in... springs up even more with the bigger torsion bars = ultra sketchy. Welding a 1/4" thick piece of flat stock where the spring plate lower stop is will help eliminate some of this. Made a huge difference on mine. Or a limit strap would do the same.

That free play in the torsion ain't helping either!

[GARRICK.CLARK1]

Hi Risk. I did have the JAYCEE torsion plate covers fitted, cant use them now though.
I've now fitted stock torsion bars and spring plates, The play has gone, So the sway way splines were made too small causing play between the inner spline mount on the chassis and the spline on the bar. Pretty peed off bout this as the bars cost a lot of money, So these 28's I have are scrap/not fit for anything, I also had to elongate my aftermarket spring plates too.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Hi Risk. I did have the JAYCEE torsion plate covers fitted, cant use them now though.
I've now fitted stock torsion bars and spring plates, The play has gone, So the sway way splines were made to small causing play between the inner spline mount on the chassis and the spline on the bar. Pretty peed off bout this as the bars cost a lot of money, So these 28's I have are scrap/not fit for anything, I also had to elongate my aftermarket spring plates too.

It sounds like quality control there is almost non-existent. When a company contracts things out normally they are supposed to check (go-no go gauges for example) the incoming parts not just rely on the manufacture's word. Getting to be too common now days .

Lee

[GARRICK.CLARK1]

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[GARRICK.CLARK1]

Hi guys. I've fitted a fresh pair of 28 bar's. I've set them with out any pre load, basically 1 spline down or there abouts. What I've noticed with no pre load is that in this position I think my shocks are not good enough to stop the rear bouncing around.
When the bug is sat on its wheels the torsional twist isnt a lot. I can also with the bug on stands and with the wheel off.. lift the rear disc up and then press it down onto the chassis stop easily. So when the bug is in use the rear will be able to move up and down with ease causing the rear to get out of shape.
The rear shocks are the white kyb gas shocks.
An I right thinking the shocks aren't tough enough to keep it stable

[Ian Godfrey]

I think you're right about the shocks. I used single adjustable Koni's to control my 28mm bars and they worked well. The adjustment allows you to tighten up the rebound (the downward movement) to compensate for the stiffer bars.
As risk said, I'd think about adding 1/4" or at least an 1/8" to the bottom stops to prevent excess downward movement of the spring plates. It will make the handling much less sketchy when you are on the brakes
Bugpack used to make a product called 'flop stop' which attached to the spring plate to do the same thing. if you scroll down this thread there is a picture. viewtopic.php?t=136403

[GARRICK.CLARK1]

Thanks for that I'll have a look for some flop stops or something similar. If can't find ll get a set made out of ally. I've a mate with a welding shop.

[Piledriver]

A few passes with a welder works...

[GARRICK.CLARK1]

Good idea. Wack the mig on high. I can grind it square too.

[GARRICK.CLARK1]

I do wonder if the extra weight of the type 4 and the weight of the turbo and its exhaust is having an effect on it bouncing. The turbo is positioned in the curve of the rear bumper.
I want it to feel good n solid on the road like other bugs that I do. The 70 profile tyres could be side wall wobbling/bouncing too. Even though there is a good amount of PSI in them.

[Ian Godfrey]

Tyre pressure is definitely something to consider. To balance my Ghia I run 34 in the back for racing. On my old Ghia with 165's 28 was about right.
It's cheap to try a bit more pressure
Generally I think 70 profile tyres have a nice amount of 'give' but not too much, for our old style suspensions, and I wouldn't go below a 60 profile.
A flat, short sidewall tyre just won't work. I tried 55's on the front (with a beam suspension) and quickly changed back to the 60's.
it might work OK on a Super bug but not a standard beetle front and definitely not a swing axle rear.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Reread the whole string and I now have a question: are you running a truss/kaffer bar to support the trans mount to the torsion tube with all that additional weight you've added the rear of you toy? It could be needed and that alone could be a good idea when playing hard with your toy.

Lee

[GARRICK.CLARK1]

Hi Lee. No I haven't fitted a truss bar. Mines a type 4 motor with the exhaust in the way. I'd have to make 1 myself. I think proper adjustable shocks is the way forward and some spring plate positive camber limiters will help.
I'll update when I've altered something.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Hi Lee. No I haven't fitted a truss bar. Mines a type 4 motor with the exhaust in the way. I'd have to make 1 myself. I think proper adjustable shocks is the way forward and some spring plate positive camber limiters will help.
I'll update when I've altered something.

One of the reasons I brought it up was this "I do wonder if the extra weight of the type 4 and the weight of the turbo and its exhaust is having an effect on it bouncing." In my case, the black buggy I am playing with, a 2.8 Cologne Ford V6 tied to a bus trans and that is a lot of weight differential from the stock VW 4-banger and the weight will sit higher than the stock VW motor and trans which could change the loading also. I am also riding in the sand so the bouncing around is most likely more than you would deal with but maybe not as much as one would think.

I've welded the trans mount seams to add support for the spot welds. My engine is solid mounted so it adds some support (in some ways) to the long trans mount forks which (I hope) helps some of the side to side movement that could happen but not the up and down movement that is more likely. The truss/kaffer bars are there to help with the potential movement but they tie into the shock mounts which are still part of the torsion assy.

Since I have a glass body the support that a bug body has to support the torsion tube (not really that much as it is the two bolts that tie the body to the torsion housing area on the shock tower (my body is glass hence no strength from the body). If one ties the torsion/trans mount to the body (Kaffer/truss support tubes) and especially if there is a cage involved the support you get for t he trans mount is/should be greater than the aftermarket truss/kaffer bar mounting.

Depending on what you mean by air-shocks (dampeners) then you said adjustable shocks... they could do some good or not. The term "air-shock" can be a misnomer: nitrogen shocks that have the fitting to add more nitrogen to stiffen things up a bit is one thing but the style that allows you to add air to raise/assist/override the spring/torsion spring is, in my opinion, is a wrong thing to do. I almost endowed (front to rear roll over) my blue buggy once due to the use of the "air-shocks" I was using vs. resetting the preload on the torsion bars to allow the use of the taller paddle tires. Too much air pressure and the rear suspension wanted to bounce around.

Am I correct in assuming you have a swing axle setup?

Lee