OK FOLKS....BRAKE DRUM OR AXLE ISSUE...

Discuss VW transaxles and transmissions. Gearheads wanted!
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dstar5000
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OK FOLKS....BRAKE DRUM OR AXLE ISSUE...

Post by dstar5000 » Mon Apr 26, 2021 7:58 pm

I HAVE A FRIEND THAT RAN HIS DRIVERS SIDE NUT LOOSE FOR A WHILE...
THE AXLE IS 30MM AT THE BASE AND THE END WHERE THE NUT GOES IS 29.5MM. I CAN NOT FIND
ANY WEAR SPECS AND IM THINKING THAT I SHOULD'NT BECAUSE THIS AREA SHOULDN'T MOVE AT ALL.

THE DRUM ROCKS ON IT WHEN INSTALLED AND TORQUED AND HAS AN IMPRINT OF THE AXLE NUT UN IT'S FACE.
I TOOK THE NUT OFF BY HAND WHEN HE BROUGHT IT TO ME...

IM THINKING OF INSTALLING A NEW DRUM FIRST AND THEN REPLACE THE AXLE IF I HAVE TO DO SO..
THOUGHTS!?

DON
‎"Let me say it as simply as I can: transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones
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Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: OK FOLKS....BRAKE DRUM OR AXLE ISSUE...

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:22 pm

An opinion but check the splines in both the axle and the drum also. The splines in both should fit fairly tight but not so tight that the spline movement is still available as that is what is needed. I would also check the two drums to verify the inner length of the driver's side drum hub for wear if only the one was loose. Over reacting but still a good idea.

Lee

BAJA-IT
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Re: OK FOLKS....BRAKE DRUM OR AXLE ISSUE...

Post by BAJA-IT » Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:39 pm

The drum is softer than the axle, so I would think the problem would be with the drum. Don't ask how I know. Also if the nut wont stay tight check the bearing spacers to make sure they are not crushing, once they start you wont be able to keep the nut tight. Again don't ask how I know.
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Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: OK FOLKS....BRAKE DRUM OR AXLE ISSUE...

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:17 pm

BAJA-IT wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:39 pm
The drum is softer than the axle, so I would think the problem would be with the drum. Don't ask how I know. Also if the nut wont stay tight check the bearing spacers to make sure they are not crushing, once they start you wont be able to keep the nut tight. Again don't ask how I know.
I agree but just to be sure I recommend checking both.

Lee

Lanner
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Re: OK FOLKS....BRAKE DRUM OR AXLE ISSUE...

Post by Lanner » Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:06 pm

I'd say they are both pooched. If the new drum shows any wiggle, the axle has to be changed.

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dstar5000
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Re: OK FOLKS....BRAKE DRUM OR AXLE ISSUE...

Post by dstar5000 » Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:20 pm

NEW DRUM DIDNT WIGGLE.... HE LEFT OFF WASHER, NUMBER 7 IN MOST DIAGRAMS AND DIDNT TIGHTEN IT ENOUGH INITIALLY... BEARING ALSO HAD A DIVIT WEAR IT WORE...

DON
‎"Let me say it as simply as I can: transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones
of this presidency,".. Barack Obama January 21, 2009, 30 minutes before he signed the law
sealing all his personal information....

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dstar5000
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Re: OK FOLKS....BRAKE DRUM OR AXLE ISSUE...

Post by dstar5000 » Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:27 pm

Nut imprint...
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‎"Let me say it as simply as I can: transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones
of this presidency,".. Barack Obama January 21, 2009, 30 minutes before he signed the law
sealing all his personal information....

Clonebug
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Re: OK FOLKS....BRAKE DRUM OR AXLE ISSUE...

Post by Clonebug » Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:07 pm

The Axle is so much harder than the drum I doubt there would be any wear on it. Get a new drum and a new nut. Get the newer style nut that has a washer built into it and torque at least to specs then tighten to line up cotter pin hole.
I had a drum spline strip this summer 1000 miles from home.....the axle was fine.
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Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: OK FOLKS....BRAKE DRUM OR AXLE ISSUE...

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:20 pm

The way that that drum looks the inset of/or the axle nut doesn't always allow the nut to tighten correctly. If the drum's splines are still good, and I question that, turning the end of the drum to remove the inset then using the proper thickness washer (you-d have to add the thickness of the amount of the removal of the nut's shape on the end of the drum surface removed) should help.

Adding the shape of the nut using in inset (like the pix shown} as a nut locking device is not the best things to do. It does not allow for/guarantee the nut to be tightened properly among other things. That embossed nut shape is just not something that should be done (engineering wise) as the axle nut cannot be tightened/torqued properly as the shape puts torqueing of the assy in a bind.

Lee

(Update and I have made some changes in the above wording)

While I have seen the locking device like that used before they usually end up having problems partially due to wear or partially to people not doing it right. If the drum, with splines, isn't done right there can be some slop between the axle and brake drum splines and the splines get hammered giving more slop from loading and unloading changes between the axle and the drum. Breaking of the splined stub when used hard can cause the stub to brake or destroy the softer material in the brake drum. Some car manufactures used axle keys the same way and the end of the axle could be damaged the same way as well as the drum or shearing the axle key' shape.

Lee

STOICH
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Re: OK FOLKS....BRAKE DRUM OR AXLE ISSUE...

Post by STOICH » Fri Oct 01, 2021 7:03 pm

This is a long time known VW issue, I have seen this a number of times over the years. If the axle nut is not torqued to at least 215 ft lbs, the axle will chatter inside of the drum and eat the teeth out of the drum. I have never seen this damage the axle, but many drums have perished. I've seen people pull engines out thinking it is a clutch also :D A trick I have learned in the desert when the drum cannot be properly torqued is to use the shims from axle seal kits between drum and the axle spacer to make up for the space needed until the nut can be retorqued. Once back home, the axle spacers get replaced for this, but the shims make it so you don't have to pack up early. I keep spare shims from these kits while out as somebody inevetably always has the issue. I don't know everything, but based on experience, I'd be surprised if the axle is damaged.

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