Switching to TD04l on 1776cc T1 (conversion thread)

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Dan Dryden
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Switching to TD04l on 1776cc T1 (conversion thread)

Post by Dan Dryden »

So now my Schwitzer S2a has died I asked you guys which turbo I should switch to (http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic ... 3&t=140162). I wanted the power to come in sooner with something that spooled faster. A few turbos were mentioned but I decided that the TD04l, normally found on the Subaru Impreza WRX, would most likely give me the faster spool without too much compromise on peak power.

It didn't start too well because the first one I purchased from eBay turned out to be damaged. Unfortunately, because I didn't find the damage until 5 months after I purchased it I wasn't able to get a refund from the seller. :evil:

(See damage to turbine)
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I bought a second turbo which turned out to be just fine so I decided to keep the damaged one for spares and using for mock up. :D

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Here are some pictures showing the physical differences between the Schwitzer and TD04l:

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Although the pictures don't seem to show it too well, the TD04l is quite a lot smaller and lighter than the Schwitzer.

It would've been nice to ditch my CB hideaway header as I have seen a few other designs which seem to have benefits over CB's, but it just wasn't in my budget. So, my first challenge was to get the TD04l to fit the CB header. You can see in the picture below that I had to mount the turbo a little higher. This was to enable the larger exhaust housing to clear one of the exhaust primaries on the header. The advantage to this is that the inherent problem of turbo oil drainage that comes with the CB header has been slightly improved upon. :D

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As I've touched on the subject of turbo oil drainage I may as well explain what I have done to accomodate the TD04l.
Basically, I have used a mixture of the parts from the Schwitzer and the original Subaru drain pipe. I cut the flange from the Subaru pipe and made a new pipe with a length of 15mm mild steel tube which I bent using a plumber's pipe bending tool. The 15mm tube was the perfect size to slide inside the old Schwitzer drain tube. I cut the Schwitzer tube to size and welded the whole assembly together.

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I'm hoping that because the TD04l sits higher it will improve drainage back to the sump (the gradient certainly seemed better on mock up). Also, with the pipe diameter getting larger towards the sump I hope this would also help stop oil backing up the pipe back to the turbo. In fairness, I only ever had this problem with the Schwitzer when the oil was cold but it was enough to break the seals and give me smokey cold starts. :cry:

I've now painted the drain pipe with high temperature resistant paint because living in the UK means unprotected steel turns to rust very quickly. I've used high temperature resistant paint because the route of the pipe travels in close proximity to the exhaust collector.

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I'll keep this thread updated as often as I can. The turbo will be installed and running by 17th May. :shock: :lol:
I have the car booked into a rolling road dyno on 17th May so I can have the ECU map tweaked to match this new turbo and also find out how my power delivery compares to the Schwitzer. I've also bought tickets to a VW show over the weekend of 18th and 19th May where I plan to put my bug through its paces around a racing circuit. :mrgreen:
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saltgrinder
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Re: Switching to TD04l on 1776cc T1 (conversion thread)

Post by saltgrinder »

hi dan, i'm interested in where your wastegate is on that header, ? have you left it on the primary ?if so how is your boost control so far ?... so many people dis the CB header but it does seem to work, i've just received mine and want to get it right before i ceramic coat it.
Is that turbo you have similar to a VF30 off an STI ? because i know that a VF30 spools faster and has a broader range than a standard wrx turbo , good luck...the search for more power never ends...
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Dan Dryden
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Re: Switching to TD04l on 1776cc T1 (conversion thread)

Post by Dan Dryden »

It would be better to have the wastegate somewhere on or after the collector. I've considered moving it there but just cannot find a location that would work. Oil lines getting in the way, j pipes getting in the way & I also want to tie it into the silencer as the noise gets quite annoying after the novelty wears off.
I have only ever over-boosted (hit my boost cut) once when I was on the highway & decided to show an arrogant Audi driver that he didn't have the fastest car on the road. :mrgreen:
It happened at around 5500rpm in 4th gear which is a speed I virtually never normally use. :wink:
I will soon find out when I take the car to be dyno tuned as they also monitor boost, so I can give you an honest answer then. Unfortunately, the last time I had the car dyno'd it was fitted with a Holset which was too big & the wastegate didn't even open!
I think the TD04l is the poor relation to the VF30. Is the VF30 a BB turbo?
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Dan Dryden
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Re: Switching to TD04l on 1776cc T1 (conversion thread)

Post by Dan Dryden »

I thought I should add that I did look to use the internal wastegate on the TD04l as this would be a better solution but the actuator fouled the rear valance.
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saltgrinder
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Re: Switching to TD04l on 1776cc T1 (conversion thread)

Post by saltgrinder »

hehehehe.......i love blowing away flash cars , i flogged a BRZ toyota/subaru thing a couple of weeks ago, he was pissed.
The vf30 is a bush bearing off an MY05 STI, has a better map than vf26{ less lag}, i intend on putting the one i have on my wifes wrxy hatch when shes not looking.I'm fitting the t04/t03 to my cb header and i think too that i will be pressed for space, good thing for modern ECU having a boost cut ,looks like i may leave the wastegate where it is
how much boost you have ?
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Wally
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Re: Switching to TD04l on 1776cc T1 (conversion thread)

Post by Wally »

Nice update/thread Dan!

FWIW: the VF30 is a one step bigger turbo then the TD04L and hence spools LATER then the TD04L. But the VF30 has more top end for sure.
For Dan's purpose and wishes, I think the TD04L is ~perfect as 100 dollar/pound/euro turbos can go.

Best of luck at the Dyno and Lydden race track/Apex festival lateron Dan!
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fastback
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Re: Switching to TD04l on 1776cc T1 (conversion thread)

Post by fastback »

how is the lifespan on these TD04L turbos when not using the original water cooling?
it has a puny bearing section?
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Wally
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Re: Switching to TD04l on 1776cc T1 (conversion thread)

Post by Wally »

fastback wrote:how is the lifespan on these TD04L turbos when not using the original water cooling?
it has a puny bearing section?
Doesn;t really need the water 'cooling': I know you also know the waterlines are there just for hot shut-off purposes (so the oil doesn;t coke at that particular moment), doesn;t effect bearing life at all in normal boosted situations. Its a 210-220 hp turbo max on a low VE aircooled engine and doesn;t flow much over 1.5 bar boost anymore, so even the bearings don;t suffer too much.
They go long miles on subies at the stock 218 hp - 2xx hp and are used on many 2.0 and 2.5 models. I even think ALL US models had them at some point for many years.

Regards,
Walter
T4T: 2,4ltr Type 4 Turbo engine, 10.58 1/4 mi in a streetlegal 1303

"Mine isn't turbo'd to make a slow engine fast, but to make a fast engine insane" - Chip Birks
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Dan Dryden
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Re: Switching to TD04l on 1776cc T1 (conversion thread)

Post by Dan Dryden »

saltgrinder wrote:how much boost you have ?
I was running around 19psi with the Schwitzer.
I want to run the same or more with the TD04l. :wink:
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Dan Dryden
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Re: Switching to TD04l on 1776cc T1 (conversion thread)

Post by Dan Dryden »

Wally wrote:Nice update/thread Dan!

FWIW: the VF30 is a one step bigger turbo then the TD04L and hence spools LATER then the TD04L. But the VF30 has more top end for sure.
For Dan's purpose and wishes, I think the TD04L is ~perfect as 100 dollar/pound/euro turbos can go.

Best of luck at the Dyno and Lydden race track/Apex festival lateron Dan!
Thanks Wally.
I'm not much of a "turbo spec" expert so probably best you chimed in on this for me. :D
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Dan Dryden
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Re: Switching to TD04l on 1776cc T1 (conversion thread)

Post by Dan Dryden »

Just in case anyone ever looks at this thread with a plan to do a similar conversion I thought I'd better include detail about clocking / rotating the turbo housings to an orientation to suit the setup.

The turbine housing is secured to the CHRA using a v-clamp. The CHRA into the housing is a tapered fit so very tight!
I found that applying heat allowed me to eventually get the turbine housing and CHRA apart (after removing the v-clamp of course).
It also has a locating pin so you will not be able to twist the housing off, you must literally pull them straight apart.

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To enable me to rotate the housing to suit, I simply carefully ground the pin flush.

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The compressor housing is held in place by a large circlip which I found quite fiddly and difficult to undo. The compressor housing also has a locating pin so must be pulled straight off of the CHRA.

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The pin looks to be pressed in place, but no amount of heat or penetrating oil would make it budge. In the end I resorted to filing it very carefully using a small "Dremel" type disc. This will enable me to rotate the compressor housing to suit my setup.

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saltgrinder
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Re: Switching to TD04l on 1776cc T1 (conversion thread)

Post by saltgrinder »

19 PSI, this 1776 must fairly hump along
good udate on the pin ,can't wait to see the difference after you get it going
here's a laugh for you, a subaru wreckers just north of me used to have a wooden crate full of turbo's,all models and condition
50 bucks a pop !..i frequented that shop a fair bit swapping and changing
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Wally
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Re: Switching to TD04l on 1776cc T1 (conversion thread)

Post by Wally »

Hey Dan,
I did manage to pull both pins out eventually, but they can be tight, I agree.
19-20 psi is indeed where the compressor map's efficiency lines are the 'widest' on the map.
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Dan Dryden
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Re: Switching to TD04l on 1776cc T1 (conversion thread)

Post by Dan Dryden »

With the turbo oil drain sorted I turned my attention to the oil feed.
I posted a question on here about whether this turbo needed a restrictor and also checked out a few Subaru Impreza forums and it seems that a 1.5mm restrictor is needed.
On the standard installation this is done using a banjo fitting but a hose fitting is also available from the aftermarket suppliers. The thread size into the CHRA is M10x1.5mm. I went for the hose fitting:

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I've re-wrapped my CB header and sealed it with high temp paint. The reason I've wrapped it is to help achieve a quick spool by keeping the gases going through the turbine nice and hot and fast moving. It also helps keep heat out of the engine compartment which is another inherent problem with the CB design.

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I have welded the internal wastegate shut as I won't be using it. I did this by welding the mechanism shut:

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I've trial-fitted the parts to ensure that nothing moved or warped when it was being welded and it all seems to go together nicely.

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I now need to final fit everything and make sure the engine runs ok with no leaks etc. I'll then take the car to have the tail pipe / silencer adapted to fit the TD04l and get a a pipe made to run from the wastegate to the silencer.
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Wally
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Re: Switching to TD04l on 1776cc T1 (conversion thread)

Post by Wally »

Nice job! Good move on the oil restrictor too.

I welded the valve itself shut:
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Can't you move that wastegate location on the CB header?
T4T: 2,4ltr Type 4 Turbo engine, 10.58 1/4 mi in a streetlegal 1303

"Mine isn't turbo'd to make a slow engine fast, but to make a fast engine insane" - Chip Birks
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