An engine run cart build

[Ol'fogasaurus]

I don't know if this is the proper forum for this but I am seriously thinking about start an engine stand build which I have considered off and on for several years now. DaleM. got me started again with this as he has now built a run stand and documented it here (http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic ... 9&t=140175) but one of the differences is that I am (currently) planning on a cart style of run stand.

http://www.easy-run.net/

I ran onto this video today; I have posted the URL for the easy-run build site before but the walk through of the stand on the video I found interesting. In some other engine stand builds that I have found; it was recommended to use 1” square tubing which I suspect is .120 wall. I was looking at something that would break down and store in a small area and it looks like this does up to a point but still remains pretty stiff because fasteners combining the basic shape/frame are not used. This, also being modular like it is, you could build the minimum you need then later add to it as necessary. This puts me back on 1 X 2 or weld two 1-by’s together to get the rectangle shape for the keeping the add-ons straight up and down. I don’t think I would have to raise the stand so high off the floor but the idea of using a creeper is interesting.

According to an engine weight sheet I found and talking to several other people; a ACVW weighs in anywhere from 147 pounds to 250 pounds. I am not sure if the lighter weight is a long block weight or full up weight (which I doubt).

One of the other things that bothers me is that many years ago I was looking for used a 5 bolt 289; one yard had one they said/thought was in good condition and 'did I want to hear it run'. They laid down a couple of tires, put the engine in the hole in the center of the two then started it up; with no manifolds or exhaust pipe I could not hear anything so that was wasted other than I knew that the engine ran. When they “blapped” the engine two things happened: 1) the engine torqued over to the one side which I expected to see and 2) the engine wanted to twist/switch ends because which I did not expect to see. I’m not sure but I think, the energy stored in the flywheel and the vibration dampener combined makes it want to twist around. Even though I don’t think that even a moderately built ACVW has that much torque, for some reason that memory always has stuck with me so I plan on assuming and working on/with that torque presumption.

What I have so far is an 002 bell housing and a sketch which keeps changing.

Lee

[Alan Freilich]

Lee, The engine run stand question has been around for many years. As you see on all the sites it comes down to many factors. quick engine run or may be a sustained opportunity to run the engine safely , have a universal application, and basically adapt to your needs. I see you viewed the Easy-Run. As you can see it has been designed for many applications and long term use. It is an investment in equipment. No. it is not a cheap investment . The size of the tubing for your build is going to be relative to what you are going to do with the stand. A stand with substance will last and take the use by you and your friends. I have been building these stands for many years and would advise you to go at least to a 2" square tube and at least .090 wall thickness. The cost of the tubing is the least expense when building a run stand. It will consume the most time in labor cost and last for a lifetime. Spend the time to come up with a design that meets your needs and may be include some "what ifs for future engine builds" you will not regret the extra planning and I hope you enjoy the build and fruits of your labor when it is done... Be careful... we have found that the guys that have a run stand seem to become more popular with the local car cars. I love selling our run stand BUT have no problem helping the guys that love to fab and build there own. Call if you need any help. 951-780-8392.... Thanks, Al

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Thank you sir and welcome to STF.

Your reply answered several questions that I had but I am still torn by just where do I stop; VW only or capabilities accommodating the use of water pumpers. I did learn a lot for Sal's coverage of your stand and I think I would like to go in a similar direction so reviewing that video is going to happen several times. I have looked at your site and ads on TOS ('the other site' which is what we often call The Samba here [a lot of people here post on both sites]); I have also looked at several other commercial and private builds trying to find the best information that I can.

The guys who might use my stand is probably pretty small, mostly family but as you say, I could be pretty popular if it get built and the word gets out.

Thank you for replying to this and for sharing information with me/us.

Lee

[Steve Arndt]

http://i433.photobucket.com/albums/qq58 ... 130001.jpg

http://i433.photobucket.com/albums/qq58 ... 130001.jpg

From the samba.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Thank you, is that yours Steve?

Lee

[Ol'fogasaurus]

This came off DaleM.’s site by a gentleman named RHelton and this is his design for an engine run stand. It is very interesting and very clean. I have his permission to post it.

“The base on my stand is only 24" X 24" and the center-line of the engine is at 29 inches (less bending over).”

“Note the wheels, handle and levelers which make it easy to move around even with a complete engine.”

“I used 3/16 &1/4 inch angle and 1/4 plate for attaching the bell housing. As for tilting back for movement, I put the fulcrum moment to where a fully dressed engine is no effort to move outside or to store in a corner. Note the adjustable leveling pads that focus the weight evenly at the corners, so no chance of rocking on an uneven floor. With the engine weight cantilevered over the starting battery, there is just no problem. I built mine to the height where I can also use the stand to attach to my friend's engine dyno. All I need do is fabricate a drive shaft from a transaxle input shaft with a universal joint welded on to match his (a friend of his who has a dyno – Lee) dyno input.”

Lee

[RAIL9222]

I made one for the honda engines. I made some supports for the engine and a stand with battery, radiator and fuel system and gauges. This system is compact and stores away when not in use. I just need to build different engine supports if I need to a different engine.

-Dan

[turboblue]

Here is mine:







We run in every engine we build on this stand and use it to test customer engines as well.
It has a 3 rib bus bell housing bolted to an upright plate that is braced then clamped to a cart.
Has a boat fuel tank, electric fuel pump on its own switch, battery, ignition/start switch, oil pressure gauge, oil light, tachometer and auto-stick starter.
We have modified the starter bushing in the bell housing to accept the 6v starter for the 40hp builds.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Thank you Gary, what thickness of material did you use for the plate your bell housing is bolted to qne do you have an approx height to the center of the crankshaft?

Lee

[turboblue]

Thank you Gary, what thickness of material did you use for the plate your bell housing is bolted to qne do you have an approx height to the center of the crankshaft?

Lee

5/16" plate.
14" off the cart but if I were to build another it would be a bit taller to allow an oil drain pan under engines with deep sumps.
Would change the brace a bit to clear stock heater boxes.
As of now we have to run in the stockers with J tubes.

We've run in a lot of engines with this over the years.
Can't imagine being without it now.

Here is video of one getting tweeked...........

[Ol'fogasaurus]

For some reason I can't get your video to play.

I just went back and looked at your pictures again; I was concentrating so much on what you had and where you had it that had missed that you have the stand clamped onto a cart... how interesting! Never thought about doing something like that so that throws another fish on the fire so-to-speak (bar-b-que/smoked salmon is big up here).

One of the things that has been driving me is the torque of the engine on a stand; is there as much is you see in a car. I remember having/been required to install a torque strap on my (race?) car to stop torn motor mounts. Do you get that much torque showing?

I was talking about the dolly concept to a guy yesterday (VWs) and he never uses one, he just installs the engine then does the rest in-car. On a VW or glass buggy, my back has a hard time 'skrunching' down like that for any length of time. Even a rail can be hard to access the engine in especailly if it is a long back style.

Lee

[turboblue]

The first video was in photobucket as a wmv. file.

Try this one:

http://youtu.be/2agucIdKEA8


Stand is rock solid as you can see.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Thank you sir; your one video answers a lot of questions and concerns/hang-ups that I have. It also tells me I want to stay with a cart idea and have the centerline of the crank be somewhere close to the 29” level. I am assuming that your cart is similar to http://www.harborfreight.com/24-inch-x- ... -5770.html with a wheel width of close to 2” which I think is close to perfect storage wise. I went out and measured my V-6 that I built an ersatz stand for that is too narrow and two feet by 3 feel would accommodate it as a storage cart for it when the run cart is not in use. I think the front and rear cross-pieces of the frame are going to be winged out a bit for the casters to attach to. I also don’t think I am going to use casters that swivel on all four corners either; it can throw a marginally balanced engine stand off balance and allow it to tip-over (personal experience here).

If at all possible am going to try to make this a break down (for easy storage) as far as possible like the Easy Run unit that Alan Freilich builds. I really admire the thinking that has gone on there. I am just not sure how much extra stuff that would have to be added to support the VW engine; still playing with that (read over-kill/safety as usual)

While I was writing this reply, I just saw RAIL9222’s post on the Honda engine and the way it is mounted on the floor it also does not show the torque over problems that I was worried about (thanks Rail). I guess I have worked with V-8’s too long. The separate movable module for the radiator and electronics is also very interesting concept. If I hooked the ignition module battery and other stuff like that to a stand-alone module I could move it where I was working at the time. As it is, I want the ignition with an emergency shutoff switch on the distributor end of the engine.

When Leather first interduced me to the forum he mentioned I was a bit anal and you can see it for sure now. Thanks for all the great ideas guys, keep them coming.

Lee

[turboblue]

My cart is 27" tall w/4" casters.
Measures 24" x 48".
My cart is pretty heavy duty. Made from angle iron and 1/8" flat plate.

We have gone to swap meets and car shows with an engine bolted to the stand and the stand strapped to the floor of my enclosed trailer.
Not sure that harbor freight cart would cut it.

I like the extra space in front of the engine.
That allows you to set the engine on the flat area, then hitch your britches up to plug it onto the bell housing...........

This video shows the cart much better.

http://youtu.be/6k5Adic0PlI

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Thanks Gary, I was not going to use the HF cart, I just posted it just for sizing. The extra platform (the last video) behind the engine is another idea I hadn't thought of. Something to put tools or parts on or, when something goes wrong, pound on. Lots of good ideas for sure. Hmmm, four feet instead of three feet… gotta think about that.

Thanks again for all the ideas and taking the time to post them. I hope this helps others too.

Lee