I was wondering if anyone has thought of, tried, or actually done a conversion on an air cooled head to adapt it to a WBX engine (opposite of what most of the people talk about on this forum).
As far as i can tell there are a few things one would need to take into consideration:
head stud spacing
cylinder fit into head (particularly making sure the seal works properly)
offset between cylinder seating face and main outer gasket sealing face
Anything else? It seems like welding a water jacket around all the fins wouldn't be too difficult, and it would open up a whole slew of piston/head options that simply aren't available to the WBX engine. Do you think there would be sufficient cooling (it seems so...)? It seems like what you would want to do is:
partially mill down the center fins to allow coolant passage
drill holes to allow water entry from the stock water jacket
properly locate head stud holes
weld on a water jacket (allowing for the drain holes and coolant exit ports)
fly cut sealing face at the correct offset from the cylinder face
It seems like all that could be done for not too much $$$ (possibly the same amount as a quality set of new heads).
Basically if you want to keep it watercooled (i do), it comes down to a couple things:
How many different pistons have you seen for the WBX? I've seen two stock versions and two aftermarket. One of which sucks and the other is really expensive.
How many different heads have you seen for the WBX? I've only seen one, and if you are willing to drop serious coin, you can get big valves installed.
That is it for options. If you open up the world of air cooled, how many do you get?
If you look at the WBX head, you will se a head that is realy good. Port it and have bigger valvs in it and you have a killer head that will outperform most aftermarket t-1 heads.
Ghia2919 wrote:If you look at the WBX head, you will se a head that is realy good. Port it and have bigger valvs in it and you have a killer head that will outperform most aftermarket t-1 heads.
Well, fortunately, this is what i have. The problem is that my motor is stroked out, and piston selection is a problem. I would love to run some "squishy" pistons from aircooled.net, but this isn't an option for a WBX head. Also, what makes a wbx head so much better than a t-1 head?
I'll probably just go with some cutom pistons for the wbx, but it seems that there is a huge knowledge base of engine tuning around t-1 parts, and essentially nothing for the wbx.
And a side question - does anyone know why the wbx combustion chamber is almost all in the piston and seemingly most other cars it is in the head?
It would cost a lot less to install bigger valves than TRY to convert a air cooled cylinder head to water cooled and run on a waterboxer block dont get me wrong anything can be done and like I have said before if Bill Gates wants it done someone can do it. Rocky
pocketrocket wrote:It would cost a lot less to install bigger valves than TRY to convert a air cooled cylinder head to water cooled and run on a waterboxer block dont get me wrong anything can be done and like I have said before if Bill Gates wants it done someone can do it. Rocky
I think if i were looking at only the heads, i would have to agree with you (but it still isn't cheap!). But what i am trying to talk about is the avenues that are opened up for other components. There are lots of less expensive t-1 pistons with lots of different offsets to work with a stroker crank that won't work with a wbx head. I have to shell out at least $500 to get custom pistons. Now couple that with the $1,200 for big valve heads and things start getting really expensive really quick. Not to mention if you want to go high rpm (i don't), getting stiffer springs is a real pain in the ass on the wbx heads.
Would getting a set of decent heads (say in the $600 range) for a t-1, and then welding a jacket around the fins and a little machining offset the cost of big valving a wbx head and custom pistons?
I am guessing so by all the negative comments. All this started with wanting "squish-enhanced" pistons for the wbx, which don't exist, and just playing around with ideas on how to get that to work. I really think they would work well for a van application.
Stud pattern... you could use the (drag/race style heads for even better performance.. I would go with a seperate cooling system for the heads rather than trying to use the stock setup.. that would coole the barrels easy... (Maybe swao the rad sot he heads use the main one and the block/oil use an auxilary one..
make the jackets for the heads as simple as possible without too much welding, use a davis craig (or whatever it is) variable speed coolant pump with temp control..
On the wbx heads.. I though they were a bit thin to get bigger valves in and a better port job?? or would you use the AMC "spanish" ones?? (Anyone know how to get hold of that co.. I am in France so silly to buy from USA!!)
I am after a tourque engine, so RPM isnt an issue.. 5-6k would be fine.. 5k would be 100mph anyway... plenty fast enough for a brick!!!
If I was dead set on trying this, I would use some aftermarket race heads like has already been mentioned, weld a strip of aluminum around the fins with an inlet on the rear and an outlet on the front, like Jack Sachette did in pro-stock before he was told NO. The cooling system would get very interesting, since the different components would need to be plumbed in "series" with something like a metering valve or oriface to insure the cylinders and heads recieved equal cooling. You would need several temp sensors to make sure it is working right. After all that you might be so crazy that you wish you never would've tried. But it could possibly be easier than I think.
If you use any head that has a bug head stud pattern you can't make it work!! The head stud pattern from the waterboxer to bug pattern is way different. You would have to plug the holes that are already drilled in the bug heads then remachine to the waterboxer pattern. This would be a gaint under taking. If you use a Auto craft 910 head you will spend some BIG $$ just on the heads. If you could get a CB comp. elem. Head that was not drilled for the head studs so you could drill them for the H2O boxer pattern you will again be back to spending $$$. Bottom line is just use the water boxer heads put bigger valves in those. You can machine the spring cups to use afermarket dual springs practice cutting the cup on a junk head. You could also cut one in two to see the amount on material you have under the springs. Good Luck! Rocky
If you use any head that has a bug head stud pattern you can't make it work!! The head stud pattern from the waterboxer to bug pattern is way different. You would have to plug the holes that are already drilled in the bug heads then remachine to the waterboxer pattern. This would be a gaint under taking. If you use a Auto craft 910 head you will spend some BIG $$ just on the heads. If you could get a CB comp. elem. Head that was not drilled for the head studs so you could drill them for the H2O boxer pattern you will again be back to spending $$$. Bottom line is just use the water boxer heads put bigger valves in those. You can machine the spring cups to use afermarket dual springs practice cutting the cup on a junk head. You could also cut one in two to see the amount on material you have under the springs. Good Luck! Rocky
pocketrocket wrote:Bottom line is just use the water boxer heads put bigger valves in those. You can machine the spring cups to use afermarket
This is for a van, so high revs aren't a big deal. Stock rev limit is fine with me. So if i stay with the stock heads, i don't need to worry about doing anything with the springs.
However, if you really wanted to run the "super squish enhanced" pistons Aircooled.net sells, how would you go about doing it? I'm fine keeping the stock heads with the bigger valves installed, but there simply isn't any combustion chamber. I've seen them opened up to as big as 29cc on a high performance wbx engine, but would this be enough to use either the t-1 squishy or the t-4 squishy? Still big bucks to do all that head work!
Anyway, as always, thanks for putting some thought into this!
The problem is you want to run a piston that can't be made for you engine with out spending big $$$. John won't let someone make his piston & I don't blame him. I'm not a big fan of the hi-performance waterboxer as it gets into big $$$ fast. Rocky
Mmm.. sounds like you are trying to do what I am..
Get more out for sensible costs.. (and keep some reliability)
With a bus.. you need more grunt, boigger valves may not do that.. making everything work together will..
My idea is to .. clean uo the ports, match all the intakes, fit a spilt duration cam (webcam 218/119) fit a merged system (but not to big diameter) all based on 2.1 crank and either DJ pistons or some machined 1.9 pistons (can get a little better CR with those apparently!!)
and just try to get it efficient..
Any tips on making it efficient would be good..
The consideration would be a stroked crank.. but then its £££ and rods to suit!.. or bigger bore, but 2.2 seems the economic option (gowesty/wiseco pistons)..
Oh and I was gonna go for some ceramic lifters to reduce the valve train weight and not rik eating the cam...!!!
Mnmike wrote: weld a strip of aluminum around the fins with an inlet on the rear and an outlet on the front, like Jack Sachette did in pro-stock before he was told NO.
Does anyone have photos of this process or does jack sachette have a website.
