Just wondering what is the largest crank that can be fitted to the inside of a T5.
A big cc T5 with a turbo will allow us to run in the water cooled classes....
crank size
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pocketrocket
- Posts: 389
- Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 12:01 am
The waterboxer block has just the right head stud spacing to install the 101.6 P&Cs. For a all out drag engine. I see a lot of customers going to the 101.6 = 4.000 & 103.12 = 4.060 with the Autocraft heads & now with the new C-D heads. Its big CCs 2873 with a 86 stroke crank and 103.12 P&Cs. I think some can see past the cheap BZ. alum case and experience the difference in true German factory workmanship. With a built in 1.5 qt. sump and the 94mm bore the waterboxer to air will make a great street engine. With a die cast block, not sand cast like the BZ. alum. case. The oiling system in the H2o To Air block is the best VW ever made in a flat four engine. The effort is in the work needed to build quality engine not just a cheap engine. Thank You Rocky
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Santas Brother
- Posts: 299
- Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 6:55 pm
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Tony Z
- Posts: 1244
- Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2000 12:01 am
from the little that I do know about the T5 engine, correct me if I am wrong....
Crank is the same as the T1, except for the mains which are T4 size, making the crank damn strong. Flywheel is 225mm with 5 bolts, not dowel pins.
But could I fit a T1 crank? Lets say I go to Scat and say: "Hi, I want a T1 crank, Chev journals, T4 mains and 86mm stroke." then buy a T1 flywheel. Would that lot work together???
Crank is the same as the T1, except for the mains which are T4 size, making the crank damn strong. Flywheel is 225mm with 5 bolts, not dowel pins.
But could I fit a T1 crank? Lets say I go to Scat and say: "Hi, I want a T1 crank, Chev journals, T4 mains and 86mm stroke." then buy a T1 flywheel. Would that lot work together???
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MnMike
- Posts: 123
- Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 7:16 pm
WBX crank is a t1 bearing crank, except #1 or the flywheel bearing, it is t4 diameter, but t1 width. A Scat type 4 main bearing crank will go in a 1.9 case with little difficulty. You will run Scats adaptor bearings for t1 case to t4 crank on bearing #3+#2 that is the center and next one closer to the pulley. Then you can get a type 4 bearing for #1 main bearing, it will be too wide though and need to be shimmed and a flywheel seal adaptor shim needs to be made. The wbx-air conversion is not cheap, be warned. Call Rocky Jennings if you are ready to spend $ he can hook you up.
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pocketrocket
- Posts: 389
- Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 12:01 am
About the 101.6 = 4" cylinders. At this time I do not think a 101.6 bore engine with any head can live on the street. A street engine is a engine that can be driven for HOURS at 60 to 70 mph. Not the I drive it 10 miles up & down the main drag in your home town, park at the burger place & BS about it being a street car!! I know we all here about the 9 sec. street cars in the posts on the differant forums. Dont get me wrong its cool what those guys are doing, but I dont think many of them are street cars IMO. The 101.6 cylinders need more fins & the heads A/C 910, C-Ds & C-B Comp. Elims. are not a true street head IMO. In the quest for building 2.8 to 3.0 flat four A/C engines we need some one to step up to build the cylinder head that will cool well enough for the Hours of 70mph on the freeway. After doing all the work on the new Racing intake manifold for the A/C & C/D heads I know first hand what it takes to make custom 1st class parts. Knowledge, years of experience doing things right, determination & $$$$$$. If any one would like to talk with me about working on a Totally new streetable 101.6 cylinder and cylinder head give me a call . Bill Gates I am waiting for your call!! 1-509-525-7721 Thanks Rocky
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Tony Z
- Posts: 1244
- Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2000 12:01 am
Rocky
What about sleeving the 103 T4 cylinders down to 101? They work fairly well on the T4 or is the PCD of the T5 heads too small for the T4 cylinders?
I know that the T4 has a set of heads made by "Engine Plus", I think they are German and have a T1 exhaust port. If you are moving the head studs for the T1, why not move them for T4??
Just throwing out ideas here, not really sure where I am heading.
What about sleeving the 103 T4 cylinders down to 101? They work fairly well on the T4 or is the PCD of the T5 heads too small for the T4 cylinders?
I know that the T4 has a set of heads made by "Engine Plus", I think they are German and have a T1 exhaust port. If you are moving the head studs for the T1, why not move them for T4??
Just throwing out ideas here, not really sure where I am heading.
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Tony Z
- Posts: 1244
- Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2000 12:01 am
Just going thru the Remelle website, some nice heads there. 4000Euro
50x42 valves, their new engine has 52mm throttle bodies, 3.1 litre,
there is something really wrong with these guys. Nice Work
OK, I cant find the link to the heads I mentioned, I have the details at home, but am in Frnace now, so that doesnt help.
50x42 valves, their new engine has 52mm throttle bodies, 3.1 litre,
there is something really wrong with these guys. Nice Work
OK, I cant find the link to the heads I mentioned, I have the details at home, but am in Frnace now, so that doesnt help.
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Barfly
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2002 1:01 am
Tony Z wrote:Just going thru the Remelle website, some nice heads there. 4000Euro
50x42 valves, their new engine has 52mm throttle bodies, 3.1 litre,
there is something really wrong with these guys. Nice Work
OK, I cant find the link to the heads I mentioned, I have the details at home, but am in Frnace now, so that doesnt help.
Here in the link to Typ4 Remelle Cylinder Heads (only in German for the moment sorry)
http://www.remmele-motorsport.com/de/zyl_kopf_rem.html
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Tony Z
- Posts: 1244
- Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2000 12:01 am
Hey Barfly, ich war ztwei wochen zuruck in Olten. Mein Familie wohnt in Biel. OK, well honestly, I never learnt to write German, just talk it. Reading isnt too bad though.
The Remelle heads are amazing, but then for that price, I should hope they would be. I cant seem to get onto the PTP website, they were offering the Engine Plus heads, for street use (or am I mistaken??), at a price slightly less than the Remelle boys.
The Remelle heads are amazing, but then for that price, I should hope they would be. I cant seem to get onto the PTP website, they were offering the Engine Plus heads, for street use (or am I mistaken??), at a price slightly less than the Remelle boys.
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Santas Brother
- Posts: 299
- Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 6:55 pm
Here is a loose translation according to:
http://world.altavista.com/tr
REMMELE of cylinder heads type 4
103 mm and 105 mm of drilling
Why?
VOLKSWAGEN stops already into the 80ern the production of the air-cooled penalty. The supply of parts thus meanwhile expressed problematic. New original Volkswagen cylinder heads are not available usually any longer.
Used heads nowadays already are since ten thousands kilometers in the use.
Cylinder heads for large volume engines starting from 2,4 ltr. must be extremely worked on. For this however perfect a starting point is necessary. Even then a service life, similar as attainable in the series, is never by the complex Umschweissen.
By the increased requirements of the beetle drivers the 2.4 ltr engine became meanwhile nearly the „Einstiegsmotor“. In order to be able to offer to our requirementful customers a stable engine, we developed our new cylinder heads.
Of course should be eliminated during this new development all disadvantages old type 4 of head.
The following modifications were made:
High-quality aluminum min transfusion.
Additional thermal treatment for increased material strength.
The angle of the inlet range was changed, thus the valve guide shrank over a length of 50 mm completely in the valve guide basic drilling. A loose valve guide, like with the worked on type 4 cylinder head is impossible thereby.
More largely before-poured inlet channels Ø 45 mm.
Generously arranged discharge opening channel. Cross sections to max. 46 mm are possible.
The spark plug position was optimized, kerzengewinde: M12 X1,25.
Against surcharge double ignition is possible.
Optimally CNC milled combustion chamber.
Improved valve seat material.
Changed valve guide position, thereby more place between the valves.
Special valves made of titanium or ceramic(s) are possible.
Heat sink increased clearly.
The associated intakes are usable for carburetors and butterfly valve parts up to Ø 54 mm.
To create the rocker arm range clearly increased over for all rocker arm translations place.
Newly arranged valve cover with O-ring seal.
Of course it is possible to equip existing type 4 engines with our new cylinder heads. A clear increase in output is guaranteed by us.
For further detailed information we are to you at any time gladly at the disposal.
TECHNICAL INFORMATION
Remmele of cylinder heads for type 4 engines:
Specially aluminum casting, later hardened, hardness: 110 Brinell
Intake with 3-Loch attachment
Valve cover from solid aluminum casting with O-ring seal
46 % more heat sink than series head
Combustion chamber back strengthens poured for 103 mm + 105 mm of drilling
Cylinder head within the rocker arm range more largely dimensions
Finishing cylinder head à CNC
Valve guides from high-strength bronze alloy
Special valve seats on the basis of newest criteria aerodynamically cleanly works on
Intake valve aerodynamically cleanly works on
Exhaust valve from Nimonic (easier than sodium-cooled valves, extremely good heat conductivity)
Valve springs: Single feathers/springs 107 kg, double feathers/springs for extreme engines 160 kg
Special aluminum valve retainer, coats, weight 8 gr.
Spark plug position optimally – against surcharge 2 candles per cylinder possible
Different inlet duct cross sections possible
Discharge opening channel generously dimensions
Exhaust attachment with 4 pins
Scope of supply:
2 cylinder heads
8 valves
8 valve springs
8 valve retainers
8 valve spring documents
2 suction tubes with ISO flanges
2 valve covers with O-ring seal
4 spark plugs (during double ignition: 8 St.)
8 tappet protective pipes
inclusive all screws, pins and u-disks
Blower box in GRP (against € 100 surcharge in carbon fiber)
Engine conclusion in carbon fiber
completely before-criticized
Â
Note:
When ordering the following Vorabinformationen is necessary:
Drilling/stroke
Ventilhub
Desired compression ratio
Prices for a pair Remmele of cylinder heads type 4
Standard version:
Duct cross section 45 mm (inlet channel)
Valve size maximally inlet 48 mm, discharge opening 42 mm
intake manifold Ø above up to 52 mm IDF distance for carburetors or injecting butterfly valves
1 spark plug per cylinder
Complete price: Â 3,990.00 €
http://world.altavista.com/tr
REMMELE of cylinder heads type 4
103 mm and 105 mm of drilling
Why?
VOLKSWAGEN stops already into the 80ern the production of the air-cooled penalty. The supply of parts thus meanwhile expressed problematic. New original Volkswagen cylinder heads are not available usually any longer.
Used heads nowadays already are since ten thousands kilometers in the use.
Cylinder heads for large volume engines starting from 2,4 ltr. must be extremely worked on. For this however perfect a starting point is necessary. Even then a service life, similar as attainable in the series, is never by the complex Umschweissen.
By the increased requirements of the beetle drivers the 2.4 ltr engine became meanwhile nearly the „Einstiegsmotor“. In order to be able to offer to our requirementful customers a stable engine, we developed our new cylinder heads.
Of course should be eliminated during this new development all disadvantages old type 4 of head.
The following modifications were made:
High-quality aluminum min transfusion.
Additional thermal treatment for increased material strength.
The angle of the inlet range was changed, thus the valve guide shrank over a length of 50 mm completely in the valve guide basic drilling. A loose valve guide, like with the worked on type 4 cylinder head is impossible thereby.
More largely before-poured inlet channels Ø 45 mm.
Generously arranged discharge opening channel. Cross sections to max. 46 mm are possible.
The spark plug position was optimized, kerzengewinde: M12 X1,25.
Against surcharge double ignition is possible.
Optimally CNC milled combustion chamber.
Improved valve seat material.
Changed valve guide position, thereby more place between the valves.
Special valves made of titanium or ceramic(s) are possible.
Heat sink increased clearly.
The associated intakes are usable for carburetors and butterfly valve parts up to Ø 54 mm.
To create the rocker arm range clearly increased over for all rocker arm translations place.
Newly arranged valve cover with O-ring seal.
Of course it is possible to equip existing type 4 engines with our new cylinder heads. A clear increase in output is guaranteed by us.
For further detailed information we are to you at any time gladly at the disposal.
TECHNICAL INFORMATION
Remmele of cylinder heads for type 4 engines:
Specially aluminum casting, later hardened, hardness: 110 Brinell
Intake with 3-Loch attachment
Valve cover from solid aluminum casting with O-ring seal
46 % more heat sink than series head
Combustion chamber back strengthens poured for 103 mm + 105 mm of drilling
Cylinder head within the rocker arm range more largely dimensions
Finishing cylinder head à CNC
Valve guides from high-strength bronze alloy
Special valve seats on the basis of newest criteria aerodynamically cleanly works on
Intake valve aerodynamically cleanly works on
Exhaust valve from Nimonic (easier than sodium-cooled valves, extremely good heat conductivity)
Valve springs: Single feathers/springs 107 kg, double feathers/springs for extreme engines 160 kg
Special aluminum valve retainer, coats, weight 8 gr.
Spark plug position optimally – against surcharge 2 candles per cylinder possible
Different inlet duct cross sections possible
Discharge opening channel generously dimensions
Exhaust attachment with 4 pins
Scope of supply:
2 cylinder heads
8 valves
8 valve springs
8 valve retainers
8 valve spring documents
2 suction tubes with ISO flanges
2 valve covers with O-ring seal
4 spark plugs (during double ignition: 8 St.)
8 tappet protective pipes
inclusive all screws, pins and u-disks
Blower box in GRP (against € 100 surcharge in carbon fiber)
Engine conclusion in carbon fiber
completely before-criticized
Â
Note:
When ordering the following Vorabinformationen is necessary:
Drilling/stroke
Ventilhub
Desired compression ratio
Prices for a pair Remmele of cylinder heads type 4
Standard version:
Duct cross section 45 mm (inlet channel)
Valve size maximally inlet 48 mm, discharge opening 42 mm
intake manifold Ø above up to 52 mm IDF distance for carburetors or injecting butterfly valves
1 spark plug per cylinder
Complete price: Â 3,990.00 €
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Wally
- Posts: 4564
- Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 12:01 am
I think we deviate a little here, but ala:
FYI: The remmele price is inclusive of the special valve covers, intake manifolds and his (porsche style) cooling shroud.
The engine Plus heads are also sold by Gerd Weiser: www.gwd-weiser.de
The original manufacturer (...) of the Engine Plus heads is Ok-products in Germany. They probably also cast the Remmele heads...
www.ok-products.de
Not many know the last web-site, but the pictured products speak for themselves
So, now you have all the info together
With respect to streetable oxyboxers, I think a company called Limbach in Germany has produced the ultimate street cylinder for the oxyboxer: 97mm Nikasil cylinder with the original wbx stud pattern. Oettinger used to make the ultimate crank for the wasserboxer: 82mm chr-moly counterweighted forged.
Gives 2,4 ltr of very longlivety engine.
Now, Gerd Weiser makes a new Limbach based cyl.head for also the wbx stud pattern: look at his site formore info. Its basically the Limbach head, but with even more fins. Not cheap but Rocky is right: do it it right with big street engines will cost more.
Reagrds,
Walter
FYI: The remmele price is inclusive of the special valve covers, intake manifolds and his (porsche style) cooling shroud.
The engine Plus heads are also sold by Gerd Weiser: www.gwd-weiser.de
The original manufacturer (...) of the Engine Plus heads is Ok-products in Germany. They probably also cast the Remmele heads...
www.ok-products.de
Not many know the last web-site, but the pictured products speak for themselves
So, now you have all the info together
With respect to streetable oxyboxers, I think a company called Limbach in Germany has produced the ultimate street cylinder for the oxyboxer: 97mm Nikasil cylinder with the original wbx stud pattern. Oettinger used to make the ultimate crank for the wasserboxer: 82mm chr-moly counterweighted forged.
Gives 2,4 ltr of very longlivety engine.
Now, Gerd Weiser makes a new Limbach based cyl.head for also the wbx stud pattern: look at his site formore info. Its basically the Limbach head, but with even more fins. Not cheap but Rocky is right: do it it right with big street engines will cost more.
Reagrds,
Walter
T4T: 2,4ltr Type 4 Turbo engine, 10.58 1/4 mi in a streetlegal 1303
"Mine isn't turbo'd to make a slow engine fast, but to make a fast engine insane" - Chip Birks
"Mine isn't turbo'd to make a slow engine fast, but to make a fast engine insane" - Chip Birks