Oxy fan and shroud

Gideon · Post by **Gideon** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 7:51 pm

What are all of you oxy conversion guys using for fanshrouds. A doghouse with the "house" removed from the back and a 1500 fan? Maybe Jake Raby's shroud with a oil cooler attached like his Type 4 version? A non-doghouse with some vanes added to keep the flow directed through the oil cooler space? Also, what are you planning for an oil cooler?

I was originally trying to find a way to make a hybrid (air/water) set-up. However, its time to build an engine for a ghia I bought and I want to keep it simple. I have two WBX cases at home. One for crack smoker experiments and a spare. But now I have been thinking an oxy conversion might be nice in my ghia. Especially since the quality of vw cases seems to be decreasing. They don't even bother to put the preservative on them any more.

MnMike · Post by **MnMike** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 3:07 pm

Whatever you do it will not work like stock. So you will have to experiment to see what works best for your combination. I have read on another forum that a dghouse fan fits in the scat non-dog 36 horse style shrouds. I have heard of people welding the cooler outlet up on a stock shroud. You will of course need a big old fan and cooler run remote style.....good luck, sounds like you will be rollin your wbx sooner than me...

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 3:20 pm

Two customers of the TI DTM have modified them to fit the Oxy boxer. Both of them did not use the stock cooler and thats no big deal for me to arrange when I build the shroud. I leave one deflector and vane out and the outlet that allos air to go to the cooler can be removed.

I tested the shroud this way in case someone ever wanted to run it "coolerless" and the air balances out very well this way..

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 3:47 pm

MnMike wrote:Whatever you do it will not work like stock. So you will have to experiment to see what works best for your combination. I have read on another forum that a dghouse fan fits in the scat non-dog 36 horse style shrouds. I have heard of people welding the cooler outlet up on a stock shroud. You will of course need a big old fan and cooler run remote style.....good luck, sounds like you will be rollin your wbx sooner than me...

I was thinking it would be nice to have a double cooler set-up with one blown from the engine fan, the other remote. However, its probably not worth the trouble. Just get a big remote cooler, duct some air, and run a fan.
I don't know about getting mine done first. I haven't even cut the water jackets off yet! Good luck with your project.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 3:55 pm

MASSIVE TYPE IV wrote:Two customers of the TI DTM have modified them to fit the Oxy boxer. Both of them did not use the stock cooler and thats no big deal for me to arrange when I build the shroud. I leave one deflector and vane out and the outlet that allos air to go to the cooler can be removed.

I tested the shroud this way in case someone ever wanted to run it "coolerless" and the air balances out very well this way..

Thanks Jake. I'll definately keep it in mind. It looks like a quality product. The only thing I have to come up with is some electric fans to heat the car. The girl friend will definately object to no heat. "... but honey, Jake's shroud is really nice and cools better..."

Badbugtwo · Post by **Badbugtwo** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 8:25 am

Check out how this one was done:

http://www.rockyjennings.com/mickys_race_car.htm

Not easy or cheap, but it can be done!

Steve Arndt · Post by **Steve Arndt** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 9:09 am

Badbugtwo wrote:Check out how this one was done:

http://www.rockyjennings.com/mickys_race_car.htm

Not easy or cheap, but it can be done!

Can you tell me what the heck is up with the 1/2 valve cover in this pic?
http://www.rockyjennings.com/images/sho ... 02124a.JPG

pocketrocket · Post by **pocketrocket** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 9:35 am

The engine is running pauter alum. 1.4 rockers & to get the rocker arm geometry dead on we had to lower the rocker studs & then ran into valve cover clearance problems. We cut the bottoms of the VC & then welded sheet tin so the the rockers would clear. I wonder how many engine builders go to the trouble to set the geometry dead on with some aftermarket rocker arms. Thanks Rocky

pocketrocket · Post by **pocketrocket** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 9:39 am

Also we make it into a bolt on valve cover & the silcone was extra protection on VC leaks may not look the best, but it does not leak. Rocky

Gideon · Post by **Gideon** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:51 pm

Badbugtwo wrote:Check out how this one was done:

http://www.rockyjennings.com/mickys_race_car.htm

Not easy or cheap, but it can be done!

Thats an interesting way to do it. I didn't think of bolting an adapter to the side of the case. Hmmmm... Now if I could just get my hands on some of those Limbach air cooled heads.

Post by **Piledriver** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:05 pm

Folks object to just mounting the cooler T4 upright conversion style, mounted to the fan housing in the stock location?

pocketrocket · Post by **pocketrocket** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:49 am

I think you can mount oil coolers a lot of ways we are only showing a way that works. The t-4 cooler is not going to make the engine run hotter. It may not be the best in some peoples minds but all the parts are easy to get & the engine will live. R&D is something some people do & others just talk about! Thanks for all those that have worked so hard to do the R&D that has helped the VW industry to this point. I post through my web site hundreds of pictures of the R&D we do at my shop just to let everyone see how somethings can be done, not just to sell machine work, parts & products. If people want to do it for themselves great if we can help with machine work & parts we are here for them. I like many others will voice my concern on some of the junk that is being sold out there, so be careful on how much you save. Rocky

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:15 am

I have seen TIV coolers used in conjunction with stock fanshrouds yield HOTTER oil temps than the TI cooler did. The stock shroud lacks the cavity volume to allow proper pressure through the larger surface area of the TIV cooler.

Thats why with the TI DTM I increased airflow to the cooler cavity by almost 20% and robbed the air from a non pertinent portion of the shroud, unlike the factory doghouse that robbed air from #1.

As for R&D- I have spent 21,000 bucks in less than two years just on cooling system R&D... Hell, I spent 12K last year just on lifter R&D!

pocketrocket · Post by **pocketrocket** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 11:36 am

Thanks Jake for all your input in to the vw industry. The testing we are doing is just a start. When you say hotter could give a number of degrees. Im not saying that the DTM is not better, or you don't do R&D. Just like you found out on the DTM in the original form it could be made to cool better. I remender when Joe was trying to sell his t-4 DTM way back, some people could not understand what he was doing. We are looking into ways to improve the cooling using the stock parts that everyone already has. I'm not trying to sell anyone a new system only trying to improve the old one. I'm sure as in any R&D situation we will make some mistakes, but that won't stop us from working harder to improve. Rocky

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 12:53 pm

Rocky, I just tested it back to back twice and in one engine I saw no difference in temps, and the other I saw a 10 degree increase with the TIV cooler in the stock housing.

The more R&D we have the better off we all are. There were really about two decades of desertion from R&D by the VW industry!

Joe never really pushed the Type I DTM because he didn't finish the development before he started feeling bad. I am do glad he finished the Type IV version!

I almost gave up on the Type I 4-5 times, but friends and family kept me going to finish it!

Just as Edison said:
"Our greatest weakness lies in giving up. The most certain way to succeed is always to to try just one more time"

Keeping with that is a different story!

Rocky, we should chat some time I may be able to shed some light on a few things for you to watch for.