Hydraulic lifter victim

regis101 · Post by **regis101** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 10:42 pm

It's happened. 28k miles. Engine has a slight flutter. Been like this for awhile. 8 months maybe. It's in the shop getting some minor mechanic work and a smog check. I get the call. He says number 3 exhaust lifter is collapsed. I had him check the valve adjustment as part of my work order. This is because the heads are AMC's and I'm thinking that stainless valves are used. Nonetheless, I am an advocate of adjusting hydro's at 25-30k no matter what brand of engine it is. Before I chalk this up as a loss, perhaps my last resort is to simply remove it to be dismantled and thoroughly cleaned. The engine runs well enough. The HC's have been higher than normal. It will still pass smog. I anticipated a valve adjustment. Didn't expect this. Oh well.....

flybayb · Post by **flybayb** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 5:08 am

sorry for your trouble, bro'

If I don't use my bus for a couple of days, the first minute after startup is filled with tapping noise of my hydros. It also depends very much on brand and viscosity of my oil (I found that Castrol still is my preferred oil).
On the flip side they ain't that difficult to change. 20 bucks for a new one and an afternoon of work (and you can do it by yourself). Thats not to bad?!

my tip:
It's quite rare that those suckers quit after 30k (I don't say that I doesn't happen). But they 'age' and ppl often get 'nervous' when they hear this tapping noise and loss of power in the 'warm-up-phase'.
Here is what I do: I adjust my valves down to zero clearance (no slack, but also no preload). I keep them on the 'loose' side. Drive 50/100 miles. Let the engine cool down to the point i can touch the covers. Check the valves. If you find too much 'slack', you should tighten it to zero (but again, no preload). And go for another ride (50 miles) ....
Once all of them have zero clearance, keep this setting 2 weeks or so ...
Once you don't hear any tapping/lifter noise anymore, you can 'preload' ...

well, hope it helps ...

Despite the pros and cons, I like my hydros.

cheerio

Plastermaster · Post by **Plastermaster** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 7:46 am

Fortunately this has not resulted in a major catastrophe, but still in the long run wouldn't we be better to just adjust the valves every 3=5K? I just think "8 less moving parts", and "simpler is better".

Ron

cnavarro · Post by **cnavarro** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 8:12 am

If the engine is running fine and you don't want to tear it down, you could always put in a set of ceramic lifters, since they don't match to any cam nor require break in. You more than likely will have to redo the valve geometry, but that's a bit easier than a complete teardown. If you do decide to tear down at some point, then you can just reuse them with a new cam.

Charles Navarro
LN Engineering
http://www.LNengineering.com
Aircooled Precision Performance

flybayb · Post by **flybayb** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 8:16 am

Plastermaster wrote:... wouldn't we be better to just adjust the valves every 3=5K?".

Well, I run mine about 20k before I look at them again. As long as I don't have any premature indication (lifter noise, lack of power, ...) I haven't any major problems

Plastermaster wrote:...I just think "8 less moving parts", and "simpler is better".

I can't argue with that. Hydros are a 'concept''. You still can switch to ceramic and run 'dry'. Has pros and cons as well ...really
As long as you don't think into 'high performance' (+5000 rpm) with your engine I still like hydros ....

cheerio

Wally · Post by **Wally** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:38 am

cnavarro wrote:If the engine is running fine and you don't want to tear it down, you could always put in a set of ceramic lifters, since they don't match to any cam nor require break in. You more than likely will have to redo the valve geometry, but that's a bit easier than a complete teardown. If you do decide to tear down at some point, then you can just reuse them with a new cam.

Charles Navarro
LN Engineering
http://www.LNengineering.com
Aircooled Precision Performance

BTW, how is the delivery time these days Charles? A friend of mine asked me about them lately, but wasn't sure what time it took to get hold of a set.
Any difference in the type 1 or type 4 lifter?

Thanks,
Walter

Post by **Piledriver** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:47 am

Where are you adjusting the preload to?

The less you use, up to and including std .006 solids clearance, the easier it is for the lifter to clear itself of air, as it has more stroke available internally. I personally preload about 1/4 turn.

Given the choice of putting an new lifter on an old cam vs dropping in a set of ceramics, the ceramics win though.

But...
Aren't the ramps on a hydraulic cam too aggressive for solid lifters?
...For the valvetrain...
(I always heard that was why you couldn't mix and match)

I have hydraulics in my 88 Vanagon, it is VERY picky about what oil you use... My best luck with Shell Rotella T synthetic, they stopped tapping (for more than a few seconds, intermittently on startup) after a few oil changes. (240 K miles, heads have ~35K on them)

cnavarro · Post by **cnavarro** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:53 am

T1 cermaics in stock, but limited quantities. T4 machine ins, backordered (actually jake has claim to all of them), and T4 drop ins, about 5 sets left, but going fast.

Charles Navarro
LN Engineering
http://www.LNengineering.com
Aircooled Precision Performance

speedy57tub · Post by **speedy57tub** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:35 am

Charles, are the ones that are offered by Webcam on their website the same ones as yours?

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:44 am

Basically they are BUT Web cam can't get ANY of them....

I'm using them as fast as Schubeck can make them and Charles can supply me!

The liftersthat Charles has are different in the oil passages and pushrod cups- I modified the design

cnavarro · Post by **cnavarro** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:47 am

Different P/R cup height, oiling hole, oiling groove, so no, they are not the same

I actually have five different t4 ceramics, whereas they only have one. I was not aware that webcam has any for purchase, considering i can't even get as many as I need at times, even when ordered months and months in advance

Charles Navarro
LN Engineering
http://www.LNengineering.com
Aircooled Precision Performance

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:54 am

and paid for in advance

MattKab · Post by **MattKab** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 11:34 am

The way the your dollar is going, the ceramics are becoming much harder to resist. Will there be enough lifters available for sales in the UK and Euroland?

It's getting closer to $2 = £1

Availability is an important factor.. Useless if not available. Cash waiting.

I don't trust any of the T4 suppliers in the UK when it comes to lifters.

Matt

cnavarro · Post by **cnavarro** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:21 pm

Well, I don't except the remaining sets to last long. It might be early next year before more are available.

Charles Navarro
LN Engineering
http://www.LNengineering.com
Aircooled Precision Performance

MattKab · Post by **MattKab** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:40 pm

Cheers! January sales

I would hate to have a motor go wrong this way.

Matt