no more or less than 3 shims?

[platform115]

On Bus-boys web site it says to use to more or less than 3 shims on the flywheel..
I havent got my magnetic base yet, so I'm not sure but it looks like I'm going to have to put more than 3 on...
is that okay?
will that mess anything up?
thanks

[Marc]

http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=5060
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=26674

I really can't see what harm would come from using four, but you'd want to know why it was necessary since normally it can be done with three.

[platform115]

I see... well that's cool. I don;t have the flywheel on yet, the engine is on a "universal" stand... in short, it's a piece of junk.. I'm taking it down tonight to put the flywheel on..
I've just been checking the play by putting feeler gauge between rear seal and fan hub... I know it's not accurate but I was just trying to get an idea..
and the gap looks big

[Bobby74]

You wont be able to tell until you get the flywheel on with no shims. Measure the endplay, then subtract .006" from that. This is the total thickness of shims you will need. Mine came out to .043" total thickness that I needed. Double check and make sure you have .006" endplay +/- .001".

[platform115]

everything else says to have between .003-.005" of play...
why do you say .006"?
not that you're wrong.. I'm just wondering why you say that specific #

[dstar]

everything else says to have between .003-.005" of play...
why do you say .006"?
not that you're wrong.. I'm just wondering why you say that specific #

Because after .006, it is OUT of tolerance!


GO for .005 ......

Don

[mharney]

Then did he raise on high the Holy Shims of AntiEndplay, saying, "Bless this, O Lord, that with it thou mayst shim thine cranks to 0.004", in thy engines." And the people did rejoice and did feast upon the lambs and toads and tree-sloths and fruit-bats and orang-utans and breakfast cereals ... Now did the Lord say, "First thou pullest the Holy Flywheel. Then thou must count to three. Three shall be the number of the counting and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither shalt thou count two, excepting that thou then proceedeth to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the number of the counting, be reached, then place thou the Holy Shims in the direction of thine crank, who, being sloppy in my sight, shall stop it.

If you have to, four's probably ok. Two is not such a good idea. Three skinny ones in place of two thick ones would be my choice.

[yetibone]

Then did he raise on high the Holy Shims of AntiEndplay, saying, "Bless this, O Lord, that with it thou mayst shim thine cranks to 0.004", in thy engines." And the people did rejoice and did feast upon the lambs and toads and tree-sloths and fruit-bats and orang-utans and breakfast cereals ... Now did the Lord say, "First thou pullest the Holy Flywheel. Then thou must count to three. Three shall be the number of the counting and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither shalt thou count two, excepting that thou then proceedeth to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the number of the counting, be reached, then place thou the Holy Shims in the direction of thine crank, who, being sloppy in my sight, shall stop it.

And now for something completely different, a man with three butt...uh...crank shims

[dstar]

...........And the people did rejoice and did feast upon the lambs and toads and tree-sloths and fruit-bats and orang-utans and breakfast cereals ... .....

BUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I LOVE IT!

You Da Man, MHarney!

.......No, three shims is it.

QUit screwing around with the endplay until you get the right tools
and SPARE SHIMS to play with!

1. Install TWO shims and tighten the 5 bolts.
2. Measure endplay.
3. subtract what you got, with with what you need.
THAT is the size shim you need to install!

The reason is, that the oil gaps that develops between the three shims
is PART of the design.

If you use FOUR, then you have an extra oil gap, that was NOT a part of
the design.

Four shims will give too much total *play* when *dry* and will eventually
damage the mains.....

OF course, you will get the usual --> "I've ran four shims in my Type I
for years and haven't had a problem!"


Well..... with a disposable Type I, you can afford to wipe the mains......


Don

[Marc]

The reason is, that the oil gaps that develops between the three shims is PART of the design.
If you use FOUR, then you have an extra oil gap, that was NOT a part of
the design.

What a load.


Don, I'm still awaiting your reply over here:
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=75045

[dstar]

The reason is, that the oil gaps that develops between the three shims is PART of the design.
If you use FOUR, then you have an extra oil gap, that was NOT a part of
the design.

What a load.


Don, I'm still awaiting your reply over here:
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=75045

Keep waiting.....


I wrote the FACTS, Marc. Do your homework, I'm not doing it for you...
*You* don't have to accept them....

Please take your personal attacks offline.
I DO have email and PM if you want to quibble...


BUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Don

[Marc]

Apparently Don doesn't want to embarass himself further with any more of his silly pseudo-engineering. If he had a straight answer in the other thread he'd have given it rather than play childish guessing-games.

Let's look at the shim question from the designer's perspective. After taking into account manufacturing tolerances, he decides that the "nominal" endplay shim thickness would be .9mm and that he wants to be able to allow for a deviation of .18mm in either direction in increments of .02mm. To accomplish this using one only shim, he'd need to have a total of 19 different thicknesses available; with two shims, it'd take 12. By using three shims, the maximum number of parts that would need to be produced is only 7.
I strongly suspect that this reasoning had far more to do with the selection of a three-shim solution than any mystical properties attributable to the number of "oil gaps".
Proper technique when selecting endplay shims is to make all measurements with them dry, so unless there's dirt between them it isn't going to make any difference if you use three or four.

[dstar]

Apparently Don doesn't want to embarass himself further with any more of his silly pseudo-engineering. If he had a straight answer in the other thread he'd have given it rather than play childish guessing-games.

BLA-BLA-BLA!

...............................

I ASKED you to take your attacks OFFLINE!

I will consider any more attacks against me, as fostered by this forum,
if YOU do not CEASE and DESIST!

*I* don't question VW engineers, who are MUCH smarter than you OR I!


The oil gap IS the reason for 3, not any MORE or LESS, shims.
RESEARCH it YOURSELF!

Don

[Marc]

So once again the answer is "because" with no supporting evidence offered and once again I'm accused of not doing any research. That qualifies as a personal attack in my book - if you're going to dish it out, you should be prepared to stand up and take it.

[dstar]

So once again the answer is "because" with no supporting evidence offered and once again I'm accused of not doing any research. That qualifies as a personal attack in my book - if you're going to dish it out, you should be prepared to stand up and take it.

Bull S H I T Marc!

I TOLD the audience what it was, AND what it was FOR!
"If you use FOUR, then you have an extra oil gap, that was NOT a part of
the design.

Four shims will give too much total *play* when *dry* and will eventually
damage the mains..... "

GROW UP!

Don