New Scat lifters pit just like the old ones :-(

Mark H · Post by **Mark H** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 1:09 pm

I have a few motors runing around with the "Supposed New Scat lifters". All seemed fine up untill now. My buddies 1776 has ruined lifters and My own 2054 with a whole 1000 miles on it has badly pitted SCAT lifters. I'm done with these idiots.
I pulled my motor down because I did not like the FK44 cam. so I pulled one side of the motor and was going to just throw in a new set of scat lifters and a K8. when I lifted the case half I was surprized to find (or maybe I wasn't

that two of the lifters had most of the middle of the lifter face missing!! I'm not talkin about wear, I'm talking the same old SCAT lifter crap as always. The face of the lifter chips away and leaves a crator. Mine have crators about .025" + deep and 1/2" across.

My motor has dual VW springs, an FK44 engle cam, aluminum puchrods and SCAT lifters.
It has 1000 miles on it that include lots of blasting around the city, some fast passes but mostly lots of putting to and from. Also two 120 mile round trips on the freeway. The motor has never even been close to floating the valves and its never been misshifted. It WAS a daily driver. Lots of my time was spent fiddling with the air cleaner setup and some jetting.
Theres no reason for lifters to be pitted this badly. Not even if a motor is abused. I've seen this problem with SCAT liters for years on other peoples motors and would never use them. But I was assured that SCAT lifters had been fixed and did not pit. Bull crap!! I'll never use them again...

Worse yet is the fact that the cam blank hardness has been altered over the past few years requiring a harder lifter like the SCATS. Now with cam blanks that eat up most lifters other than SCATS and SCAT lifters self destructing , just what are we supposed to do??????????????????????

Please do not respond to this post with a tale of magic coatings, super oil addatives , extra precise lifter machining proccesses or crazy breakin proceedures.

I've been building Hi perf VW motors since 1979 and all has been well till now.

In the past I've resurfaced lifters on freakin sand paper,(alot). I've used what ever oil was on sale, And I've floated the holy he!! out of valves and never seen Lifters dissintigrate like this. AND I've never had a cam go flat. I have now had two motors grind the heads off the lifters(non scat) in 20 minutes!! And when I switched to the "NEW SCAT" lifters they just fall apart like the old ones!!

Good job VW aftermarket suppliers ,Your hard at work chasing off another would be generation of VW enthusiests.

I've been wading thru the crap parts and building great long lasting motors for decades in spite of them .
But I'm up against a wall here. If its a roll of the dice everytime a motor is assembled I'd rather not.

I hate to think we'll all have to start running subaru motors in our cars because VW parts can't be trusted.

I'll post pix as soon as I can figure out how.

Mark H · Post by **Mark H** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 1:35 pm

Hers some pix

http://us.f1f.yahoofs.com/bc/3f9b7432_7 ... ABhw02hxRc
http://us.f1f.yahoofs.com/bc/3f9b7432_7 ... .ABukhL3xz.

vdubsinjensen · Post by **vdubsinjensen** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 1:59 pm

You might want to delete your post from July 4th.Here's some of it........ "Did your cam go flat or did the lifters wear away ?? Most likely your lifters are waisted. This is because you can not use any lifter but a SCAT anymore because all the cam blanks are harder now. Especially the SCAT blanks. They should have told you that normal lifters would be destroyed by their cam. Unless you bought it from someone else.

HERES THE DEAL , ALL NEW CAM BLANKS ARE HARDER THAN BEFORE.
USE ONLY THE NEW SCAT LIFTERS WITH THESE NEW CAM BLANKS. NO LONGER CAN BRAZILLIAN,GERMAN OR ANY LIFTER OTHER THAN A SCAT BE USED IN A VW MOTOR."

mharney · Post by **mharney** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 2:56 pm

Time for someone to step up with a billet or ceramic that people can afford. This is ridiculous. It makes me scared to fire up my engine when I get it done (which is getting close).

mike@crosbys · Post by **mike@crosbys** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 3:32 pm

i cant see the pix, is it my comp or no... and Mharney, key phrase "that people can afford..."

farmer · Post by **farmer** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 4:19 pm

Mark. I definitely know how you feel about it. But at this time, there is no way around it. The only thing that works 1st time around is SLR reground lifters. And of course the high price Formula V and ceramic units.
I have not lost a cam during break in in more than 13 years. Right up to 2 weeks ago . I got a new set of Brazil lifters with a W100 cam. I - was - a bit suspicius about the lifters, but thought I was seeing MIB´s where there werent any, so I installed them and fired it up. 25 minutes later the engine was ready to take out and tear apart again. The lifter were GONE! and the cam was hurt.

New cam, along with SLR lifters, and off it went.
T.

EASY RIDER · Post by **EASY RIDER** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 4:32 pm

mharney wrote:It makes me scared to fire up my engine when I get it done (which is getting close).

Mark, do you want to take that chance! You have put so much into that thing to fire it up and have a 50/50 chance of lifter failure. I know you want to get it done but would it not be better to wait till you can get lifters that you know will work. I've been waiting 32 months to get my engine and it will probably be another month before its done.

At least send your cam and lifters to Jake and get him to test them.

Bert

mharney · Post by **mharney** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 4:58 pm

I don't think Jake's testing T1 cams and lifters is he?

I'm really starting to think I better get some ceramics. What a bunch of schitt this cam/lifter deal is. Why is it rocket science when everyone else can do it?

Post by **sparkmaster1** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 5:18 pm

I like my FK-44 I'd love to have another one.

I've been using locally reground german cores that are parkerized for 20+ years now with no failures (yet). I have about 300 miles on a FK-44 with CB dual springs. Mark, did you notice the valve adjustment growing also? Tim

fortyeye · Post by **fortyeye** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 5:22 pm

As of his last post ... Jake hasn't started on type 1 testing yet. The only problem with biting the bullet and spending the big bones on ceramics ... Schubeck can't seem to make 'em fast enough.

EASY RIDER · Post by **EASY RIDER** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 5:45 pm

OH.....sorry forgot we were talking T1. Maybe he has a set up for T1 lifter. I'd just go with the ceramics if ya can.

I personally feel that it's not rocket science. My problem is I know too much about engines now and have no way of building one again that is why I needed to let Jake build mine.

When I built my first engine I did not fully understand stuff like compression ratio or valve geometry but I built an engine all by my self and I drove it 3000 miles in the first 15 days of it being together. I did not know all that could go wrong or even much of what was wrong. If I knew all the things that were not perfect with that engine I would not have been able to sleep at night.

Today I have read and learned more info than I am able to produce on my own and that is why I found someone with experience that far surpasses my small amout of knowledge. I think the less you know about vw engines the better off you are (some times).

Remember when Jake built that engine without looking at what he was doing and with used parts. It ran, nuf said. That proves that anyone can put one of these together and make it work. The question is to what standard are you going to demand that your engine performs. I demand that my engine perform at a higher standard than I can produce.

Mark I think you can produce a great engine because you care about what you are building and you have a garage. I think you should get some fool proof lifters because it would be a shame to see all that knowledge waisted on some thing that you knew could have been avoided.

Who brags about there pistons and will not show a picture of them? Not the same guy that would take a chance on harming his engine because of cutting corners or getting impatient!

Bert

mharney · Post by **mharney** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 5:54 pm

LOL! I showed pictures! Just not the ones you'd like.

I know I know.. I should probably just bite the bullet and do it, but man, it's like 500 or 600 bucks to get them set up! Sheesh!

EASY RIDER · Post by **EASY RIDER** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 6:11 pm

What would the minimum cost be if the lifters failed and you caught the problem before it got too bad?

I learned all this stuff on perspective from my wife. I just look at prices and make my judgement from there. I thought I was going to have a heart attack when I bought my NICKIES and she was the one that kept telling me "....it's cheeper than a new car".

mike@crosbys · Post by **mike@crosbys** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 6:13 pm

EASY RIDER wrote:What would the minimum cost be if the lifters failed and you caught the problem before it got too bad?

I learned all this stuff on perspective from my wife. I just look at prices and make my judgement from there. I thought I was going to have a heart attack when I bought my NICKIES and she was the one that kept telling me "....it's cheeper than a new car".

sounds like u have a keeper

EASY RIDER · Post by **EASY RIDER** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 6:21 pm

Hey, took my time and did it right! Never got in the situation of HAVING to get married.