VW classification

[gerico]

Great forum!
A quick scan of the rules seems to indicate that a "typical" street Bug or Ghia with a cam, dual carbs and some sort of displacement increase over stock would most likely be in "Street Modified 2" due to the weight. Correct???

[homer]

There are a couple of different ways to go, and the more "modified" class you get in, the harder the index scoring system is.

You might check out "F Street Prepared" to see if that works.

Over the last couple of years, I've run my Ghia in Novice, D Prepared, and now E Mod.

I think Street Mod 2 (SM2) is still street legal with unlimited engine mods including forced induction.

You can always just go to an event and run the first time or two as a Novice and talk with folks there about what the right class is.

Jeff

[gcorrado]

you do NOT belong in SM2. SM1 was designed for four-seaters like our bugs that have been taken to the max, but still street legal. SM2 was created for cars which are true sportscars right from the first line on the page.

SM1 is the right place for a bug, only trouble is it's underweight. currently the minimum weight is listed as 2200 lbs.

for the time being, i'd say run your car whatever it weighs. if you're really that good that you start competing seriously, you will eventually have to add dead ballast under the pan to meet weight.

------------------------------

now here's the real thing...

i've talked to SCCA headquarters about this rule and how stupid it is given that our cars weighed less than this when they were stock. i met with some sympathy, but it all has to go through a formal approval process. at some point i will be formally filing to create an alternative minimum weight for SM1. basically the rule would allow you to run you car at the weight it rolled off the assembly line, even if that weight is under 2200 lbs.

if you are an SCCA member interested in this rule change (as everyone here should be). private message me your name, you regional affilation, and your member ID. that way, when i do file i'll be able to include a petition of sorts.

--------------------------

other classes to consider:
E Prepared (stock displacement, but otherwise pretty free)
D Modified (less than 2.0 liters)
E Modified (more than 2.0 liters)

or you could try one of these, though it'd be tough to compete here:
H Stock
F Street Prepared
Street Touring

[Theo]

I'm running the Ghia in E Prepared. I was pushed out of ESP due to the rear disk brakes.

Do you think a Ghia could run in SM2?

Theo

[gcorrado]

Do you think a Ghia could run in SM2?

ouch. SM2 cars are wicked before they're prepped. i don't think VW has ever made a car fit for SM2.

but why would you consider it? ghia's have 4 seats and seatbelts from the factory, no? any car with 4 seats and 4 seatbelts from the factory (not specifically excluded) can run in SM1.

the only 4 seaters that are specifically excluded from SM1 are:
Porsche all models
Lotus all models
Nissan / Datsun Z
Honda CRX
MGB GT
Triumph all models

these excluded cars and factory 2 seaters belong in SM2, and nobody else... i don't care what you do to your air cooled VW, the lotus will eat you alive.

[Theo]

Do you think a Ghia could run in SM2?

ouch. SM2 cars are wicked before they're prepped. i don't think VW has ever made a car fit for SM2.

but why would you consider it? ghia's have 4 seats and seatbelts from the factory, no? any car with 4 seats and 4 seatbelts from the factory (not specifically excluded) can run in SM1.

I allways wondered if the back seats in my 69 Ghia had belts from the factory? It had no rear seatbelts when I purchased it and I can't see a mounting point. I used to drive my kids around in the back and the lack of belts bothered me.

Theo

[homer]

That is a good question on the 4 seats/4 seatbelts from the factory in the Ghia.

My 71 coupe doesn't have mounting points for seatbelts in the back either, and I kind of remember that this led to removing the back seat in favor of just a platform in the last year or two of production.

The advantage of running a Ghia in SM2 is that for a normally aspirated RWD drive car the minimum weight drops to 1900 lbs... a lot closer to Theo's near 1700 lb mark.

But there are some killer fast SM2 cars in Atlanta region that include Vettes, BMW M Roadsters, and Jackson-supercharged Miatas.

It's kind of funny because I think the intent for SM and SM2 was to give the ricer's a place to play with their turbos/superchargers and less unlimited mods. But in early season national events, it's the M3s in SM and Corvettes in SM2 that are cleaning house.

The question of what class for a Ghia in autoxing is a good one. Maybe Brent Bousman will weigh in on this as he won EP in the DC area in his Ghia.

For me, I will settle for getting my Ghia back out there and being competitive at the local level.

Jeff
'71 Ghia DMod

[gerico]

I'm in San Diego so will run at Qualcom but probably would never be competitive in any class because my car really is a daily driver and the suspension mods are pretty simple. 3/4" bars front & rear, 195 series low profile tires on 5.5" porsche 914 rims, and good metalic pads on the stock disks and stock rear drums. I just want to run for fun but none the less it would be nice not to have to compete against heavily modified vetts, porsches, and BMW M3s.

Oh yeah, I installed inertia belts from a 1974 Super Beetle...front AND rear. The belts look stock and have the VW insigina on them.

[Guest]

It?s about time I finally opened my eyes and saw this forum listed near the bottom.

Gerico,
If you are running in SCCA SOLO2 autocross, you are running a vintage car against new cars with computer designed sophisticated suspensions. You will eventually be able to embarrass a lot of people with your VW with the right mods and much practice but you probably only be competitive at a local level in your class.

I wouldn?t worry about running against Vetts, Miata or Minis or whatever. A good driver in a Miata will run with a Vett in SM2 (really). Just go out and run, practice and above all have fun.

You said stock discs so I guess you are running a Ghia. What year?

You can change class later should you want to modify your car more but it?s always a trade off with a dual purpose car.

I?m not a big fan of the retractable seatbelts for racing purposes. If the belts don?t lock up manually with a good jerk before you hit the start line then they can be a real pain since there is nothing holding you in the seat. If they don?t hold try a cg-lock devise.

If you have the $$ buy a set of wheels, autocross tires and a good alignment before you buy a lot of other stuff.

Theo,
Since Ghias don?t come with rear seat belts I bolted a seat belt in through the pan to hold a kid seat back when that was all I had. The back seat is really what I call a jump seat, which is sort of between a 2+2 back seat and no back seat at all. Sort of what you find in some of the old Brit cars. Since the Ghia doesn?t technically have a real back seat, I think it can fit in SM2 - should you want to modify it enough for that level of play.

I had to run in the EP class with the slight wheel flairs and rear discs a few years ago when the SM classes were just starting(I'm sort of retired now). From a PAX index standpoint SM2 is actually a little better to be in but I would take a look at your competition in EP vs SM2 before making a decision.

Jeff,
Dmod is a tough place to be. Is that a trailer car?

[Brent Bousman]

That is me above not logged in!

Brent

[Mike T]

There is a new SCCA Class that may be attractive to Beetle autocrossers. The new X-Prepared class has a sliding weight scale that starts at a base weight of 1200lbs then adds 200 lbs per liter of displacement rounded off to the nearest whole liter. Cars with the engine behind the driver add another 20lbs per liter. This means a 1.6 to 2.4 liter Bug for example would compete at 1640 lbs. (1200+440) A more attractive choice than SM at 2200lbs or SM2 at 2100 lbs.

Mike T

[Ozzie]

ooh, ooh, ooh, what's the pax index? Do the rules allow for non-stock displacements like I think you're saying? FSP only allows a minimal overbore.

[Mike T]

Not only increased displacement but any engine too.

rules here;

http://www.scca.org/_FileLibrary/File/2 ... _rules.pdf

Looks like PAX is:

XP 0.868

Mike T

[gcorrado]

THIS IS HUGE.

[Ozzie]

Me, I'm still fighting the bears with a hickory switch and a sling shot. That's a BIG PAX. FSP is .814, and SM is .845. If you can run a lower class, I would reccomend it. That would be a good class for a 400 hp rotary, hummm....any body got KEP's number?






(that's a joke, I don't need it)